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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| MJ23 wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | I didn’t say she was a Trump supporter. No doubt the world is full of racists who are not Trump supporters. However, when the clown in office refers to an entire race of people as rapists, drug dealers and animals, it is what - just a coincidence that she chose that precise language? His obvious role in enabling this sort of routine public racism is not so easily dismissed as you would like to pretend. |
Trump said that......about and entire race ?
Wow |
No. No he didn't.
You're seeing stage 4 Trump Derangement Syndrome. |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Yes he did. But MJ23 could read the article and form his own opinion, of course. |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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By "free from sensationalism", you mean "white-rinsed of the racist anti-Mexican sentiment".
Yes, MJ23 could read the speech - the speech is actually worse than the way his comments were portrayed in Guardian article. Surely even you can work out that when Trump says
"When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people. But I speak to border guards and they tell us what we're getting. And it only makes common sense. It only makes common sense. They're sending us not the right people."
it's just racist. "Some, I assume, are good people" is just a different guise for the old "Some of my best friends are Mexican" which we all always understood was a racist apologia.
If you can't see that, there is no merit at all in trying to have a conversation with you. |
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MJ23
Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Location: Sydney
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He was referencing the criminal element and MS13, and he has done it in a few forums.
He never attacked an entire race.
To say he did is just tiresome and other actual arguments against Trump loose credibility. To be honest, I'd rather hear the arguments in fact as he has his flaws that both sides probably could agree on.
_________________
"Even when Im old and gray, I wont be able to play but Ill still love the game"
Michael Jordan |
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MJ23
Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Location: Sydney
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | By "free from sensationalism", you mean "white-rinsed of the racist anti-Mexican sentiment".
Yes, MJ23 could read the speech - the speech is actually worse than the way his comments were portrayed in Guardian article. Surely even you can work out that when Trump says
"When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people. But I speak to border guards and they tell us what we're getting. And it only makes common sense. It only makes common sense. They're sending us not the right people."
it's just racist. "Some, I assume, are good people" is just a different guise for the old "Some of my best friends are Mexican" which we all always understood was a racist apologia.
If you can't see that, there is no merit at all in trying to have a conversation with you. |
Again by saying they are not sending their "best" means they do have better people. Thats not an entire race attacked. Its not that hard. He is on record for Legal Immigration. To suggest a "Guise" in his thinking is what you want it to be not what it is. You cant know that.
There is precedent with Cuba sending their criminals to the US. Not their "best" element.
But, twist it how you want, use it to label him any category of person you need to suit your view and shoot down any other message from him or is government. Thats working really well for the anti-trump movement atm as you can see in the polling.
Im with you on one thing though, probably no merit in having a conversation with you on the subject. go pies.
_________________
"Even when Im old and gray, I wont be able to play but Ill still love the game"
Michael Jordan
Last edited by MJ23 on Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:47 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | If you can't see that, there is no merit at all in trying to have a conversation with you. |
Ironic. You see what you want to see and your cognitive dissonance wont let you out of your own intellectually flawed mental prison. Brainwashed by the media and spouting left wing slogans like a pussy hat wearing arts student.
Sad. |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| MJ23 wrote: |
He was referencing the criminal element and MS13, and he has done it in a few forums.
He never attacked an entire race.
To say he did is just tiresome and other actual arguments against Trump loose credibility. To be honest, I'd rather hear the arguments in fact as he has his flaws that both sides probably could agree on. |
This is so true. I could absolutely rip Trump apart on numerous terrible policies and errors of fact and judgement, but all I hear are outrageous claims and spittle flecked lips crying NAZI and RACIST. All that leads to are supporters and neutrals defending him, it creates support from those who may be looking for any reason to vote against him. |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Am I just imagining it, or has the VPT gotten incredibly right-wing lately? Two out of three posters here seem to be Trump supporters. I’m not sure you’d find that ratio in a Liberal Party meeting, let alone society as a whole.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Pi 
Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Location: SA
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^
I don’t think there is a lot of Trump supporters, but there are people who can understand why the Trump phenomena happened, the left has, for the moment, largely gone off the rails, yesterday’s progressives have become todays tyrants, especially on university campuses and in the media. Trump is just a symptom, it will only change if the left reject the Antifa mentality.
You nailed it a few posts back:
| David wrote: |
You might be able to scare someone and silence them into submission, but you’re never going to be able to convince them of your views that way. |
_________________
Pi = Infinite = Collingwood = Always
Floreat Pica
Last edited by Pi on Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| When is Trump not a symptom it will change if the left reject the Antifa mentality? |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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^ I loathe Trump. I could exhaust every weapon of vituperation i have, and not feel i’d got near his scabrous character and the dangers he represents. But given a choice between Trump and so-called diversity warriors who want to crush civil exchange and commandeer policy with the hateful slur of “Nazi” and “racist”, even I would rather take my chances with Trump. I think he’d take a few more years to have me locked up for thought crime than they would. And that, I think, is the opinion being formed by quite moderate people I know in the USA.
_________________
Two more flags before I die! |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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MJ23
Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Location: Sydney
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| David wrote: | | Am I just imagining it, or has the VPT gotten incredibly right-wing lately? Two out of three posters here seem to be Trump supporters. I’m not sure you’d find that ratio in a Liberal Party meeting, let alone society as a whole. |
Hey David. If you read my post's both recent and previous on Trump i'd hope you'd see that I am not a Trump supporter. I do support SOME of the policy of the republican party and by virtue some of what Trump says. In saying that after being intrigued by how Trump won Ive spent a lot of time since following the US politics and at the moment I despise the current leadership and direction of the Democratic party.
Ironically Trump has been in the past more democrat in thinking.
What I cant stand is vitriolic, blanket inaccurate labelling and false narratives that are orchestrated for lack of an actual argument.
Ive never much agreed with you on politics however on Trump Ive seen some balance in your views here recently. No issues at all with that thinking.
I do see VPT as a left wing site so haven't had much to say here for a while and usually stay away. With calls in the US to attack people of different views in public recently I couldn't help but comment. Its just pathetic.
_________________
"Even when Im old and gray, I wont be able to play but Ill still love the game"
Michael Jordan
Last edited by MJ23 on Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:50 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Fair enough, MJ. To be fair, of the regulars I think only Skids and Wokko (and maybe a few of the less regular posters like Pa Marmo) are card-carrying Trump supporters, but there are certainly more than a few who lean his way. People are entitled to their views, but I just found it ironic that people used to joke about this place being a communist cabal (and indeed I recall a time when Stui and I were the token conservatives; my views on various issues have changed, but Stui wouldn’t even be among the five most right-wing regular posters here now). Times have certainly changed...
Ok, so he’s won. His (walked back) policy was that he was going to suspend travel from certain Muslim-majority countries until he “could figure out what’s going on”. It’s been the better part of 18 months since he first tried to get this law passed, so what’s the deal? Surely, after close to half a term in office, he’d have made some inroads into the thinking process by now, wouldn’t he? Or is this just what I always thought it was: an indefinite (and, for the life of the Trump presidency, likely permanent) ban?
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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