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thesoretoothsayer 



Joined: 26 Apr 2017


PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:51 pm
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To balance the criticism of the left of centre media coverage (and it's been a train wreck) just remember that if this had been Obama, Fox News and friends would be calling him "weak", "a traitor" and an "appeaser".
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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:57 pm
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^

Correct, although Trump does attract another whole level of vitriol

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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:24 pm
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^ negotiation does not preclude placing pressure on your counter party via other channels. It may be that this is happening, of course, behind the scenes.

Don’t mind seeing this discussion as a relationship builder, but I think people give Drumpf way too much credit for strategy, when I think he’s just rolling around the deck. In any event, this is a possible overture to progress. It isn’t real progress yet.

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Wokko Pisces

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Joined: 04 Oct 2005


PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:47 pm
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http://fortune.com/2018/06/13/trump-nobel-peace-prize/
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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:09 pm
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^

I read that elsewhere earlier today.

There'll be heads exploding all over the place if he wins. Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

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David Libra

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Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:18 pm
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I honestly couldn’t give a damn. Much more invested in how the Korea situation plays out than whether Trump gets his, er, “ego” stroked.
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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:11 pm
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The Nobel Peace Prize is as prestigious as the pink rabbit you get for winning on the Laughing Clowns at Luna Park. Kissinger won it for fomenting war. Obama won it for being Obama. Trump might as well win it for surrealism in international affairs.
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Jezza Taurus

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Joined: 06 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:48 pm
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stui magpie wrote:
^

I read that elsewhere earlier today.

There'll be heads exploding all over the place if he wins. Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

I think the heads have already exploded Laughing

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Pies4shaw Leo

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Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:12 am
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No one actually cares. They gave it to Kissinger. At that point, it became a complete farce. Probably they'll give the literature prize to a musician, soon.
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HAL 

Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.


Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:16 am
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That is a rather sweeping generalization about people.
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David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:27 am
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While I’ve been willing to give credit where due on North Korea (though there’s still a long, long way to go there), let’s not forget that this is the same president who has also torn up a perfectly effective, hard-fought multilateral nuclear deal with Iran, backed the Saudi-led slaughter in Yemen, threatened to start trade wars with most of the developed world, indirectly caused the deaths of scores of innocent Palestinians through his totally unnecessary decision to move the US embassy to Jerusalem and threatened the long-term future of the planet by stonewalling on climate change policy.

If it mattered (and it doesn’t), giving him the Nobel Peace Prize would be insane. But it doesn’t matter, any more than the time they gave it to Obama for making a nice speech. The sun will still rise the day after, if Trump’s big head doesn’t blot it out.

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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:43 am
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I would be surprised if Trump doesn't leave a mess behind him, although predictions at the scale of national fortune have little merit, as so many factors are involved. Regardless, we would all benefit from leaving behind the left/right reality TV show. Buying into it is a fast way to have one's intellectual independence and dignity stolen.

On the Koreas, it takes significant ethnocentricity to think Trump is adding more than PR to the serious policy Moon has been piecing together with his NK and US counterparts for years now. Until more is known about Kim, Moon is the only one in this deserved of any serious recognition; even so, at least Trump is of an independent mindset, and his desire for glory has enabled him to hold back spoiling institutional neocons on the left and right of US politics. He deserves his photo ops for this alone.

Looking at his other actions, Trump is front-loading destabilising policies which are likely to have a nasty tail.

His tax cuts are poised to decrease social mobility (i.e., increase social polarisation) as Republicans prepare to follow inflation-causing tax cut exuberance with commensurate social service cuts. As always, the ill effects of this won't show up until after the cameras have moved on.

Similarly, Trump's international trade destabilisation policy might be the fastest way to ensure capital clings to the US in fright, but someone has to support this stimulus with fundamentals, and it takes a planet of producers to do that.

The move of the Israeli embassy was a careless interference, while Trump's actions over Iran look similarly reckless and unconcerned. Admittedly, I don't think anyone knows enough about the geopolitics of the ME to have a strong view on Iran, but that most certainly includes Trump, and it took a casual disregard for him to reverse the existing deal. (Inherited deals are neutral until proven otherwise; in this case, no serious rationale has been offered for the change).

But, Trump being Trump, he might well reverse these things in time if people talk about them enough.

It's almost a truism that the most destructive politicians combine the insidious hate vote with impulsive front-loaded decisions, presumably because they're not driven by strategic betterment, but rather present glory. Compare Trump's erratic meddling to the work of Paul Keating, a leader who reformed the Australian economy even as he strengthened the social safety net, affirmed the powers of the independent industrial umpire, increased worker savings through superannuation, built productive international relationships and organisations such as APEC, and refused to create costly instability by deploying the hate vote.

Agree with him or not, Keating was a serious politician with a careful, extensive, integrated policy platform. By comparison, Trump offers little more than short-term stimulus, black-box lurches, and anxiety-causing hatred, and will continue to do so no matter how high he rides on the back of serious politicians like Moon. I like Trump's agility and willingness to try and fail, but bravado and carelessness will never be a substitute for comprehensive, reasoned, empathetic platforms.

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Skids Cancer

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Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175

PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 5:16 pm
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The fools rushed in to trash Trump...and look at what happened in Singapore

I avoided the usual Trump cheer squad at Fox News in attempting to get an American perspective on Tuesday, but the commentators at CNN were positively truculent. Make that negatively truculent.

The prospect of a Trump success filled them with contempt. Imagine what a Nobel prize would do, given that their pin-up boy Barack Obama got one for little more than a meaningless speech to Muslims in Cairo that achieved nothing?

https://thewest.com.au/opinion/paul-murray/the-fools-rushed-in-to-trash-trumpand-look-at-what-happened-in-singapore-ng-b88867500z

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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 5:30 pm
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David wrote:
indirectly caused the deaths of scores of innocent Palestinians through his totally unnecessary decision to move the US embassy to Jerusalem



Ummm, how?

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David Libra

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Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 5:47 pm
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In the sense that you have no idea what I’m talking about, or some other take on what happened?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2018/may/14/israeli-troops-kill-palestinians-protesting-against-us-embassy-move-to-jerusalem-live-updates

Trump didn’t personally kill them, but he knew full well that this unnecesary decision was going to provoke (likely violent) conflict, and that conflict as usual resulted in Israeli soldiers firing indiscriminately on unarmed protesters.

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