 |
|
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Nick - Pie Man
Joined: 04 Aug 2010
|
| Post subject: |  |
|
| Course I might be a bit biased since I'm facebook mates with Kim Jong Un |
|
|
|
 |
HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Not many people express themselves that way. |
|
|
|
|
Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Nick - Pie Man wrote: | | The Korean situation is a splendid example of a stopped clock which happens to be showing the right time at this moment. Whatever Trump accidentally did, it's looking promising. |
Yes, if a shop is going slowly broke, a brick through the window is probably more likely to preserve it than business as usual. I think it is one of those cases, and Ive always thought his Korea activism, focused on China, was probably the most promising thing in his whole chaotic programme.
_________________
Two more flags before I die! |
|
|
|
|
pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
|
| Post subject: | |
|
One hopes that real progress is happening, but we still don't know what Kim's intention is. It could be anything from short-term self preservation to a shift in national direction based on a new NK enlightenment.
As for Trump, the stopped clock analogy gets the chaos element right, but it doesn't pay enough attention to Trump's history. We know a lot about Trump and the way he operates.
Trump is an opportunist who scans the environment looking for things to brand, from steaks to buildings to angry mobs waving fists. Most of these opportunities sour, soon to be replaced with the next hype-generating Trump project.
This creative destruction works for Trump, and he's very good at it. But it rarely, or perhaps never, results in something substantial or lasting beyond brand Trump.
Obviously, Trump has seen opportunity in NE Asian politics, and the work of Moon Jae-in in particular. But when we see Trump move from insulting Kim to praising him, we're not witnessing some grand strategy; rather, we're seeing Trump readying to either own or disown an opportunity.
Moon and Kim, meanwhile, know they have to shower Trump with praise to keep him interested.
It's very easy for to think that Trump is "making" something happen, especially given our desperate psychological need to think our own political proxies have leverage over world events.
In reality, though, chances are Trump's just being Trump, hoping he can staple his name to something. This offers some hope that he's right, but it also warrants great scepticism, especially given we still have precious few facts to work with.
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
|
|
|
|
Culprit 
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Those who watch John Oliver "Last Week Tonight". The last episode he just takes the piss out of Giuliani. So much so that they purchased all these web addresses that all lead to.
http://hillaryclintonillness.com/giuliani2024.html
US pulling out of the Iran Deal is dumb. All the other Countries are saying opposite to what Trump bullshits about. It's all an attempt to distract people from Trump banging a porn star. Let's start a war that will help win the midterms. |
|
|
|
|
David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
| Post subject: | |
|
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44045957
A disastrous act of vandalism by Trump, needlessly undoing the most significant achievement of the Obama administration, and perhaps undermining the credibility of all such future deals. A victory for Iranian hardliners too, of course. Lets just hope the fallout (metaphorical or real) is minimal.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
|
|
|
|
swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
|
|
|
|
|
think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
|
| Post subject: | |
|
sounds like a job for Jack Bauer!
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
|
|
|
|
Culprit
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| 3 US Citizens released from NK. Hooray for Trump. |
|
|
|
|
Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
|
|
|
|
|
Skids
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Donald Trump and Kim Jong-un will meet in Singapore. But why there and is a deal likely?
And it's on June 12 that the much anticipated summit will take place between President Donald Trump and North Korean leader Kim Jong-un.
The highly anticipated meeting between Kim Jong Un and myself will take place in Singapore on June 12th. We will both try to make it a very special moment for World Peace!
That's a mere four weeks away and you can bet the wheels of diplomacy are whirring the world over ahead of what will be an historic event.
"We will both try to make it a very special moment for World Peace!" the president tweeted, confirming the date and location for the meeting.
It will be the first time EVER a sitting US president and a North Korean leader have sat down face to face. Wouldn't you love to be a fly on the wall?
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-05-11/why-are-donald-trump-and-kim-jong-un-meeting-in-singapore/9750120
So, after all the fear mongering of the looney left, declaring Trump as the worst thing for world peace, that he'd start WW3, blah, blah, blah.... here we have the man, participating in the biggest moment for world peace in recent history.
_________________
Don't count the days, make the days count. |
|
|
|
|
David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Its hard to think of a single thing that that op-ed gets right. The express aim of the deal was to stop Iran from pursuing nuclear development, an aim that appears to have been so far entirely successful. Iran hasnt backed down on its side of the arrangement, so on what grounds is the US withdrawing? That the guy from The Apprentice reckons its dumb.
Some of the arguments from the CNN neo-cons piece:
| Quote: | | But the deal amounted to bribing Iran to suspend its nuclear program, which is like feeding a wild animal scraps of meat to dissuade it from biting you. |
Well, considering that the scraps of meat here were a reduction in sanctions, a better analogy would be agreeing to stop shooting at it for a little while. Otherwise, bribery? Welcome to international diplomacy.
| Quote: | | The deal lifted sanctions, threw the regime an economic lifeline and effectively recognized it as part of the international order. It moved toward the regularization of a pariah state. |
Newsflash: Iran is part of the international order, which also includes the US, Russia, China, Saudi Arabia and other nations that wield influence in the world. If were looking to construct an international order around countries friendly to the US, its never going to happen. Its essential to accept that the world consists of separate interests and powers, and the more they are willing to engage with each other diplomatically as opposed to through conflict, the better prospect there is of the world continuing to spin on its axis.
| Quote: | | It has also hugely expanded its power within the region, establishing a presence in Yemen, Syria and Lebanon. |
Indeed. As has Saudi Arabia, which is elsewhere described in the piece as a member of a new coalition in the Middle East (new because our correspondent was apparently born yesterday) and a country that now has the momentum while those fools in the UK, France and elsewhere have been humiliated (three cheers for the most repressive regime on earth! Down with pretty much all the adults in charge of Western states!).
| Quote: | | Of these, the most unreliable partner is viewed as Saudi: the United States is allying with a religious dictatorship to contain a religious dictatorship. Life is full of surprises. |
Either our correspondent is being sarcastic, or, again, he knows nothing whatsoever about the history of US foreign policy. Given the tenor of the rest of the piece, Id guess the latter.
| Quote: | | Let's be frank about the long-term goal. The United States wants regime change. Trump's advisers calculate that Iran can never be dealt with as a normal country, that it is constitutionally opposed to US interests, and that it is ripe for revolution. I don't know if all of that is true. I cannot say chaos won't follow this decision. But it had to happen. |
Ill give him credit for one thing: he has the self-awareness to admit that the thing he is proposing has every chance of being disastrous. Indeed, far more likely that any revolution would fall into the hands of militant shia Islamists, or more likely still that, rather than regime change, this brings the US and Iran into direct conflict. But what the hell, lets take a chance and see what happens. Its not like the US have ever made a mistake like that before.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
|
|
|
|
watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| David wrote: |
Its hard to think of a single thing that that op-ed gets right. The express aim of the deal was to stop Iran from pursuing nuclear development, an aim that appears to have been so far entirely successful. Iran hasnt backed down on its side of the arrangement, so on what grounds is the US withdrawing? That the guy from The Apprentice reckons its dumb.
Some of the arguments from the CNN neo-cons piece:
| Quote: | | But the deal amounted to bribing Iran to suspend its nuclear program, which is like feeding a wild animal scraps of meat to dissuade it from biting you. |
Well, considering that the scraps of meat here were a reduction in sanctions, a better analogy would be agreeing to stop shooting at it for a little while. Otherwise, bribery? Welcome to international diplomacy.
| Quote: | | The deal lifted sanctions, threw the regime an economic lifeline and effectively recognized it as part of the international order. It moved toward the regularization of a pariah state. |
Newsflash: Iran is part of the international order, which also includes the US, Russia, China, Saudi Arabia and other nations that wield influence in the world. If were looking to construct an international order around countries friendly to the US, its never going to happen. Its essential to accept that the world consists of separate interests and powers, and the more they are willing to engage with each other diplomatically as opposed to through conflict, the better prospect there is of the world continuing to spin on its axis.
| Quote: | | It has also hugely expanded its power within the region, establishing a presence in Yemen, Syria and Lebanon. |
Indeed. As has Saudi Arabia, which is elsewhere described in the piece as a member of a new coalition in the Middle East (new because our correspondent was apparently born yesterday) and a country that now has the momentum while those fools in the UK, France and elsewhere have been humiliated (three cheers for the most repressive regime on earth! Down with pretty much all the adults in charge of Western states!).
| Quote: | | Of these, the most unreliable partner is viewed as Saudi: the United States is allying with a religious dictatorship to contain a religious dictatorship. Life is full of surprises. |
Either our correspondent is being sarcastic, or, again, he knows nothing whatsoever about the history of US foreign policy. Given the tenor of the rest of the piece, Id guess the latter.
| Quote: | | Let's be frank about the long-term goal. The United States wants regime change. Trump's advisers calculate that Iran can never be dealt with as a normal country, that it is constitutionally opposed to US interests, and that it is ripe for revolution. I don't know if all of that is true. I cannot say chaos won't follow this decision. But it had to happen. |
Ill give him credit for one thing: he has the self-awareness to admit that the thing he is proposing has every chance of being disastrous. Indeed, far more likely that any revolution would fall into the hands of militant shia Islamists, or more likely still that, rather than regime change, this brings the US and Iran into direct conflict. But what the hell, lets take a chance and see what happens. Its not like the US have ever made a mistake like that before. |
Correct weight. Stupid decision which will entrench the Iranian hardliners. Other countries will pay for Trumps derelection of duty as POTUS
Chris Uhlman said it so succintly a some months ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6_ckWZCHW4
Trump: making China and Russia great again.
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
|
|
|
|
Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
|
| Post subject: | |
|
The last 48 hours.
-Trump pulls out of the Iran deal.
-Trump gets Americans back home from North Korea.
-Trump smacks ISIS, captures their top 5 leaders.
-Trump announces date & location of meeting with Rocketman.
Please Mr. President, stop! I cant take all this winning! 😂
https://twitter.com/Education4Libs/status/994730034215641089 |
|
|
|
|
Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| As long as youre happy with him playing international diplomacy for home-market political points, its fine. Personally, since Im not a US citizen, Im not impressed. None of those wins are wins for us. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum
|
|
The Rules
FAQ
Usergroups
Calendar
Search
Log in
Register
