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Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010 Location: Ponsford End
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Bad move by Trump hiring a guy who epitomises the neo-conservative mindset.
Contrary to what Trump platformed on during his campaign, the neo-cons still seem to be firmly in charge of the foreign policy defence establishment. _________________ | 1902 | 1903 | 1910 | 1917 | 1919 | 1927 | 1928 | 1929 | 1930 | 1935 | 1936 | 1953 | 1958 | 1990 | 2010 | 2023 | |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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What makes move by Trump hiring a guy who epitomises the neo-con establishment bad? |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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Wokko wrote: | Bolton makes McMaster look like a gender studies majoring arts student. I can see a big war incoming. |
His pacemaker will probably give out before his peacemaker does. |
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swoop42
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008 Location: The 18
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The Republicans are in office so it must be time to find a new enemy to fight a war against somewhere in the world.
Vietnam, Iraq, North Korea?
Call me a cynic. _________________ He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010 Location: Ponsford End
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swoop42 wrote: | The Republicans are in office so it must be time to find a new enemy to fight a war against somewhere in the world.
Vietnam, Iraq, North Korea?
Call me a cynic. |
Be cynical of the neocon establishment which is filled with both Democrats and Republicans.
Obama was a war hawk as well, but not as blatant as Bush.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/09/america-dropped-26171-bombs-2016-obama-legacy _________________ | 1902 | 1903 | 1910 | 1917 | 1919 | 1927 | 1928 | 1929 | 1930 | 1935 | 1936 | 1953 | 1958 | 1990 | 2010 | 2023 | |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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The only US President not to wage war was Jimmy Carter, it's hardly a republican thing. |
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MJ23
Joined: 28 Feb 2011 Location: Sydney
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Mugwump wrote: | ^ the primary vote question is what it is. It does not make Trump illegitimate, and the electoral college system is there for very good reason. It is just noteworthy that a candidate as shabby as Clinton pulled in 3 million more votes on aggregate.
I long ago gave up trying to find a credible independent source on Clinton and the allegations of corruption. The mainstream reliable papers that I read, the Financial Times and the Economist, did not paint her as especially corrupt by US political standards. If you have read anything reliable which clarifies the matter, I’d be interested to read it. I have no great wish to defend her. I hold Burkean conservative views, and her politics (like that of the Republicans) is emphatically not mine. But truth is always interesting.
I decline to see mere transparency as a virtue, unless it is backed by coherence, probity, dignity and quality of thought. I see none of these in Trump. His sole virtue in my eyes is that he is doing democracy’s work by bringing the voice of the ignored and despised into politics again. |
There is a big divide between the middle America and the coast. As in Australia, the heaviest populous is on he seaboard. The popular vote will now more than ever go to the Dems with the left ideology and sanctuary city declarations. However for Trump, to get more republican votes than ever before says a lot as well.
Ive not read any one article or source on Clinton however there is a heap of information out there on top of what she herself has said and done in the past. Bernie campaign raised a few eyebrows as did the first Obama primary run.
Agree, Transparency isnt in itself a deciding factor however I think people are very quick to dismiss Trump with motherhood statements on character without backing it up. Is he flawed ? Absolutely but he is also very smart and not nearly as ignorant as he makes himself out to be. Im not sold on him but far from dismissive of him either given he has done some significant things so far.
Its simplistic to say he simply tells people what they want to hear. The issues are real to the Americans the voted for him and he has been talking about these things for years before he ran for pres.
One thing though, much more interesting the Australian politics !!
_________________ "Even when Im old and gray, I wont be able to play but Ill still love the game"
Michael Jordan |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
Good points. I look on in humour at how so many people dismiss Trump as an evil idiot when he clearly isn't, because it suits their beliefs.
I don't think he's a high quality human being (mind you neither are the Clintons) but I think the narrative that he only won because Idiot America voted for him is left elitist bullshit. He's smart and targeted his message and so far seems to be delivering on it, for better or worse. God forbid we had politicians in Australia who actually did what they promised during elections.
While I'm not a member of his cheersquad, I do enjoy watching the show.
_________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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^Yes, that sort of language elucidates nothing.
As a leader, Trump is strong tactically, and weak strategically. He is good at taking down near-comers in battle through surprise, wrong-footing, convention busting, and improvisation. These are greatly underrated talents probably because people don't want to be reminded of just how shabby and undignified business, politics and life itself can be.
Of course, Trump is unlikely take anyone but family and passing opportunists or groupies with him because his wins rest on his idiosyncratic talents and personal motivation at any one time. This is reflected in his disjointed and disparate business interests, lack of organisational identity beyond his own name, and strengths in short-term "deal" industries such as real estate and TV.
Bolton would be the nearest bloke hanging around who gels with his current needs and talk, not an important role player in a plan of any kind.
As a consequence of his strengths, Trump can dominate short media cycles, and is no doubt good at "negotiating" in situations where he can domineer modest rivals in short-term association, and weather their retaliation. This happens to be a crucial skill in controlling the most important arm of contemporary governance, the media, in its various forms. And we are not talking about some ability peripheral to politics here; controlling narrative is the holy grail of politics, like it or not.
At the same time, the existence of an executive in the US system helps, too, because, unlike the more institutional branches of government, it can accommodate individual eccentricity and isolation, at least for a time.
So, as long as he can continually decentre efforts to question the long game, and as long as strategic considerations don't turn on him, Trump can keep "winning", albeit in a Charlie Sheen kind of way.
This ability to win battles makes Trump a great foil for Republicans, because they can use him to slash and burn a way to their long-term policy objectives while maintaining an organisational stability that Trump could never build. At the same time, the Republicans are a great foil for Trump, as they can prop him up beyond his short attention span.
How long Republicans can keep propping Trump up structurally, and how long Trump can help them over the line in key constituencies, remains to be seen. Meanwhile, larger strategic forces of little interest to him, a list of enemies a mile long, and the waning protection of the executive, could come home to roost at any moment.
While shenanigans and improvisation are permanent features of politics, Trump's strengths and weaknesses, which are highly idiosyncratic, are clearly shaping the US political game in new ways. _________________ In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010 Location: Ponsford End
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stui magpie wrote: | I don't think he's a high quality human being (mind you neither are the Clintons) but I think the narrative that he only won because Idiot America voted for him is left elitist bullshit. He's smart and targeted his message and so far seems to be delivering on it, for better or worse. God forbid we had politicians in Australia who actually did what they promised during elections.
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Agree, Stui.
Last week on her tour in India, Hillary Clinton's remarks about the different demographics that voted for her or Trump demonstrate this ongoing elitism permeating through many strands of the left. She essentially said all those voting Trump are 'backwards', which is condescending bullshit.
Has she ever pondered the idea that she was a crap candidate, and that's why she lost the election? I doubt it.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hillary-clinton-middle-america-looking-backwards-lost-election-donald-trump/ _________________ | 1902 | 1903 | 1910 | 1917 | 1919 | 1927 | 1928 | 1929 | 1930 | 1935 | 1936 | 1953 | 1958 | 1990 | 2010 | 2023 | |
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swoop42
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008 Location: The 18
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Trump won because of the support gained from those who associate the new found equality of minorities with white repression and after hundreds of years of privilege I guess they sadly can't tell the difference.
Hillary might have been a crap candidate but she still won the primary vote comfortably in New York and California and this is where you'll find the real diversity of America and I'd argue it's also the part of the United States that drives it's continual prosperity whether it be in finance, IT or the creative arts. _________________ He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Location: Between London and Melbourne
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swoop42 wrote: | Trump won because of the support gained from those who associate the new found equality of minorities with white repression and after hundreds of years of privilege I guess they sadly can't tell the difference.
Hillary might have been a crap candidate but she still won the primary vote comfortably in New York and California and this is where you'll find the real diversity of America and I'd argue it's also the part of the United States that drives it's continual prosperity whether it be in finance, IT or the creative arts. |
Swoop, I don’t know how many of them you have spoken to, or what you have read on the subject, but very few of the people who voted for him seem to have been motivated by racism. They were motivated by the offshoring of jobs, the insecurity of employment, the sense that many urban people did not like the country they live in while the poor do the dying for it, and much besides. Some might have been motivated by the forces you described. Some always are. They are usually few in number. I annot share your sweeping certainty or boilerplate beliefs about the “privilege” of so many people who are under real pressure. _________________ Two more flags before I die! |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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swoop42 wrote: | Trump won because of the support gained from those who associate the new found equality of minorities with white repression and after hundreds of years of privilege I guess they sadly can't tell the difference.
Hillary might have been a crap candidate but she still won the primary vote comfortably in New York and California and this is where you'll find the real diversity of America and I'd argue it's also the part of the United States that drives it's continual prosperity whether it be in finance, IT or the creative arts. |
That's unfair. There's little white repression carried out amongst the general population in the US. They have highly-trained local police forces whose job is to subjugate the black (and Hispanic) population systematically, so that white people don't have to think about it. "Sheets off, guys - let them see our pointy heads." |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Location: Between London and Melbourne
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^ plenty of sweeping racial generalization in that post. Not so much in the US. _________________ Two more flags before I die! |
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MJ23
Joined: 28 Feb 2011 Location: Sydney
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swoop42 wrote: | Trump won because of the support gained from those who associate the new found equality of minorities with white repression and after hundreds of years of privilege I guess they sadly can't tell the difference.
Hillary might have been a crap candidate but she still won the primary vote comfortably in New York and California and this is where you'll find the real diversity of America and I'd argue it's also the part of the United States that drives it's continual prosperity whether it be in finance, IT or the creative arts. |
Can't really see anything in thus except the attitude of the elite towards the middle class. These same racists voted for Obama twice.
California is progressive however I'd suggest it's progressing towards unlivable. Not sure when you were there last but I'm not going back any time soon it's disgraceful. _________________ "Even when Im old and gray, I wont be able to play but Ill still love the game"
Michael Jordan |
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