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Culprit 
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Do you think everyone will agree? |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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well we need to create more jobs!!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Culprit
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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^^Prison led economic recovery.  In saying that the cost to house one prisoner is $55000 (approx) per year and rising. We have privatised the prison system so companies like G4S are making a killing off the tax payer. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| Culprit wrote: | | ^^Prison led economic recovery. In saying that the cost to house one prisoner is $55000 (approx) per year and rising. We have privatised the prison system so companies like G4S are making a killing off the tax payer. |
Jeeeeezus that's nuts, how much are bullets?
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| I think you're missing the point. Even if there were to be a reintroduction of capital punishment, most convicted criminals will not have committed crimes that would attract such extreme punishment. Thus, Culprit's conclusion is inescapable: a general reduction in bail means a general increase in the prison population. You mustn't allow your disapproval of this particular crime to cloud your thinking. Most things most criminals do are not as awful as this was. |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Culprit wrote: | | ^^Prison led economic recovery. In saying that the cost to house one prisoner is $55000 (approx) per year and rising. We have privatised the prison system so companies like G4S are making a killing off the tax payer. |
Are you sure Culprit? $55K Sounds well under to me
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Bingo.
I read or saw somewhere that this bloke was on bail for assaulting his mothers partner. No more details and Assault covers the spectrum from physical intimidation to beating the suitcase out of someone.
Even with the proposed changes, there's no guarantee he would not have been granted bail
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Not a bad article.
| Quote: | Its important to note that bail is very different to parole. Parole is what a criminal gets after serving less than their maximum sentence. They go on parole when they get out.
Bail is what you get before youve been before the courts. So bail is to stop innocent people having to sit in jail waiting for their cases. But sometimes guilty ones get out on bail too. The struggle is balancing the need to ensure people who might be guilty of crimes dont get out of jail while still allowing those that might be innocent not having their lives ruined by sitting on remand for a year or two waiting for your case to be determined.
Theres an old saying in the law that it is better a thousand guilty men go free than one innocent man be convicted. And that concept pervades the criminal law. Its why trials are often said to be tipped in favour of defendants. And its why people get bail from time to time when the community if asked might not be comfortable with the granting of bail. |
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/balance-on-bail-laws-needed-to-protect-public/news-story/4c01607a383258abb458599731fd2b8e
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Skids
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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| stui magpie wrote: | Not a bad article.
| Quote: | Its important to note that bail is very different to parole. Parole is what a criminal gets after serving less than their maximum sentence. They go on parole when they get out.
Bail is what you get before youve been before the courts. So bail is to stop innocent people having to sit in jail waiting for their cases. But sometimes guilty ones get out on bail too. The struggle is balancing the need to ensure people who might be guilty of crimes dont get out of jail while still allowing those that might be innocent not having their lives ruined by sitting on remand for a year or two waiting for your case to be determined.
Theres an old saying in the law that it is better a thousand guilty men go free than one innocent man be convicted. And that concept pervades the criminal law. Its why trials are often said to be tipped in favour of defendants. And its why people get bail from time to time when the community if asked might not be comfortable with the granting of bail. |
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/balance-on-bail-laws-needed-to-protect-public/news-story/4c01607a383258abb458599731fd2b8e |
Didn't read the article... yet... too pissed.
The "Old Saying" may have had some cred pre DNA and forensic advances... today, it's more the guilty piece of crap having a better lawyer and getting AWAY with the crime they committed because money talks!
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Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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Culprit
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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| watt price tully wrote: | | Culprit wrote: | | ^^Prison led economic recovery. In saying that the cost to house one prisoner is $55000 (approx) per year and rising. We have privatised the prison system so companies like G4S are making a killing off the tax payer. |
Are you sure Culprit? $55K Sounds well under to me |
Actually I am way under as per 2014/15 figures it's $297.34 per day which is $108,000 per year approx. With 6219 Prisoners in the System that is $1,849,157.46 per day which is $674,942,472.90 per year. I would suggest that this is even higher WPT. So whilst we have the push to deny bail and parole at all costs, the fiscal ramifications are pretty clear.
http://www.corrections.vic.gov.au/utility/publications+manuals+and+statistics/corrections+statistics+quick+reference |
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swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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Those figures are such bullshit.
People survive and pay rent, bills, buy food and clothes all for $16,000 to $17,000 a year on welfare.
Even if you factor in the cost of wages once averaged out across all prisoners no way does it cost $108,000 a year per individual.
The answer isn't building more prisons it's to stop sending people to prison for short periods when in the past judges had the ability to impose suspended sentences alongside community service and supervision orders.
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He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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Or make people more accountable.
When little arewipes get into trouble for shit like graffiti, minor theft as kids, etc, the parents should pay for repairing the damage, and the kids should get some kind of community service as punishmen. Start young, I'm sure we are all having the round the dinner table discussion about what the hell has gone wrong? Why can you know longer sit home with the doors unlocked? Why do we all need security cameras and dash cams? Ie, why the hell are our jails so full?
Go to a shopping centre in a doing it hard area, and just watch a few future criminals in action. There is no discipline! They think they are owed the world.
As for the cost of Jail, put the prisoners to work. Teach them a trade, and make jails productive. They are in jail for punishment, make them earn their release.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Culprit
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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^^With Graffiti my solution is allowing people that have had their property vandalise be allowed to vandalise the parents of those who committed the crime. Also 3 strike rule if the offence is committed by a minor. The 3rd strike the minor's name and picture is allowed to be released.
People feel we should head back to the dark old days of physical punishment like breaking rocks and chain gangs. I am for that if the person has life in prison. However, if you treat someone like an animal for 5 years and expect them to behave like a human upon release after 5 years you are delusional. Once a person becomes institutionalised they will reoffend, hence the policy is prison is a last resort. The system as a whole has to change as there are a plethora of issues involved in treating criminals and whilst emotion is used in arguments nothing will change.
Prison is about rehabilitation as well as punishment. If a person gets life and to me that is they stay in prison until they are dead, then no rehabilitation is required just punishment. In saying that, if there is no light at the end of the tunnel those prisoners will kill guards and other inmates as they wont care as you cant punish them anymore. It's all about balance. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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How about a system similar to life outside? Or what it used to be before respect became obsolete.
Give all prisoners jobs, let them work their way up. Start cleaning toilets, have workshops where inmates can build furniture, even if it's just assembling IKEA flatpacks for elderly, nursing homes, hospitals. Stuff that can be outsourced without being compromised. Reward those that work hard, do the right thing. And those that refuse get nought. No telly, just old books. Give gem not just physical skills but the change in attitude to want to keep it up when they get out.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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