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watt price tully Scorpio



Joined: 15 May 2007


PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:35 am
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The climate change denialist furphy:

from the horse’s mouth: James Murdoch exposes his family’s media denialist relentless bullshit: From Fox to SKY to the Herald Sun

OMG tell me ain’t so 😱 😀😃😀

https://www.theage.com.au/national/james-murdoch-breaks-ranks-over-climate-change-denial-20200115-p53rie.html

Some of us already knew: well, it was as obvious as Scotty from Marketing’s leadership ineptitude.

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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:18 am
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Wokko wrote:
Australia's impact on global climate is so miniscule even now, let alone when we were a sparsely populated nation of sheep farmers that anything that was done would have exactly 0 impact. If you somehow managed to prevent European settlement and there were only natives with neolithic technology the only difference would be the arson of malicious wankers wouldn't happen, but the lightning and weather and fires would be the same.

David's right; it's quite the opposite. Australia has been an aggressive, loud-mouthed poster child for funded denialism, buttressing recalcitrant global actors and undermining concerted global action. The low ground made very public by far too many Australians did plenty to poison the well of global action.

Remember Australia's role in the Coalition of the Willing? Much the same grubby PR function for powerful bad actors. Punching above its weight indeed.

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David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:58 am
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If anyone is ever in any doubt about our capacity to wreak havoc in the international sphere, here's a little incident from over 100 years ago that some might already be familiar with:

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/diplomacy-that-led-to-human-catastrophe/news-story/d2561b83328357d51102684811ba4d27

Quote:
Australia was overtly antagonistic to Japan on the international stage as early as 1919, when Australian prime minister Billy Hughes publicly humiliated the Japanese government at the Paris Peace Conference after World War I.

Hughes effectively vetoed Japan's request to be formally acknowledged as an equal with the white Anglo-Saxon empires in the foundation documents of the League of Nations. This denial of equality was seen as a humiliating defeat in Japan, where there was already deep resentment of the discrimination against the Japanese in immigration, investment and trade by the British Empire - of which Australia was the most vociferous member in the Pacific - and the US.

The rejection provided a propaganda opportunity that assisted the militarists and nationalists to undermine the relatively liberal forces in Japan that were seeking an accommodation with the Western powers.

Hughes was Australia's most significant political figure of the first half of the 20th century. His career was not without achievement. But he was a ruthless, scheming politician. His image as the manic lovable larrikin, as he was portrayed in cartoons, and which he embellished as "the Little Digger", was a contrived one.

He exploited Australian nationalism, its convictions and prejudices. Grandstanding for electoral benefit back home on a platform of protecting the White Australia policy, he opposed any concession to Japan. He persisted even though negotiations at Paris had reduced Japan's original demand for an acknowledgment of racial equality in the covenant of the League of Nations to a clause declaring the equality of nations - not races - placed in the preamble where it had no legal force: a "pallid" declaration, in the words of one senior US adviser.

When British prime minister Lloyd George, US president Woodrow Wilson and all the dominions, other than New Zealand and Australia, accepted this compromise, Hughes remained obdurate and used the veto Britain had conceded to the dominions on this issue.

This in turn delivered acquiescence from Wilson, who needed British Empire support to achieve his cherished League of Nations.


Not saying we caused World War 2. But we certainly did our bit to make it happen. Thanks Billy!

This happened before we were even a fully sovereign state, mind you. Needless to say, our influence has grown since, and we're well and truly in the ranks of upper-middle powers now.

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PyreneesPie Pisces

PyreneesPie


Joined: 22 Aug 2014


PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:55 am
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watt price tully wrote:
The climate change denialist furphy:

from the horse’s mouth: James Murdoch exposes his family’s media denialist relentless bullshit: From Fox to SKY to the Herald Sun

OMG tell me ain’t so 😱 😀😃😀

https://www.theage.com.au/national/james-murdoch-breaks-ranks-over-climate-change-denial-20200115-p53rie.html

Some of us already knew: well, it was as obvious as Scotty from Marketing’s leadership ineptitude.


Oops!! There goes James' inheritance!! Wink It's heartening to know though, that there are a few who can withstand the power of old Rupert and stick to their own principles.
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David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:12 am
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Unfortunately, he's done a Prince Harry and is pretty much out of the picture now, isn't he? I get the impression that Lachlan is the one who's next in line to the throne.
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Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:46 am
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https://www.theage.com.au/world/europe/david-attenborough-criticises-australian-government-says-moment-of-crisis-has-come-20200117-p53s7x.html
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Wokko Pisces

Come and take it.


Joined: 04 Oct 2005


PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:13 pm
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Pies4shaw wrote:
https://www.theage.com.au/world/europe/david-attenborough-criticises-australian-government-says-moment-of-crisis-has-come-20200117-p53s7x.html


WPT already posted about a cult follower's useless religious take on the bushfires.
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watt price tully Scorpio



Joined: 15 May 2007


PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:07 am
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Pies4shaw wrote:
https://www.theage.com.au/world/europe/david-attenborough-criticises-australian-government-says-moment-of-crisis-has-come-20200117-p53s7x.html


Goodness me, this is hard.

Who to trust here? Sir David Attenborough of international acclaim or Wokko of ....

Tough question

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Last edited by watt price tully on Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PyreneesPie Pisces

PyreneesPie


Joined: 22 Aug 2014


PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:36 am
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watt price tully wrote:
Pies4shaw wrote:
https://www.theage.com.au/world/europe/david-attenborough-criticises-australian-government-says-moment-of-crisis-has-come-20200117-p53s7x.html


Goodness me, this is hard.

Who to trust here? Sir David Attenborough of international accalim or Wokko of ....

Tough question


Yeah, WPT, I'd have to procrastinate over this one too! Wink

This is an interesting article https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2020-01-17/climate-change-mitigation-or-adaptation-not-a-case-of-either-or/11874202

Quote:
Here's a ridiculously extreme best case scenario: everywhere in the world, we immediately cease all human made CO2 emissions. Right now. No emissions. Forevermore.

Great! Problem solved! Right? Well, not quite.

Climate change is a long, heavy, slow moving train crawling across decades. Even if we pull the emergency brake right now, we're not stopping for a while yet.

I mean, in terms of warming trajectories, ceasing all emissions immediately would be a very good thing to do. The best science currently estimates that under this super extreme best case scenario we could probably keep warming to 1.5 degrees Celsius over pre-industrial levels.

But, even so — and especially if we shoot past 1.5 degrees and then 2 degrees, which is where the current trajectory takes us — the train has a hell of a distance to travel before it grinds to a halt.

Whatever we do from here, we've locked in at least some amount of warming — and the climate impacts that come with it.

We're already seeing these impacts. The devastating fire season we're currently choking our way through has played out against a background of just 1 degree of warming.

Things are getting worse before they get better, and we need to be prepared. This is why adaptation is an essential component of any effective climate change strategy.....


Article is basically saying that adaptation is a must, but shouldn't be an excuse for climate change deniers to do nothing about reducing emissions.
So it will be a two-pronged plan that has any chance of saving the planet as we know it.
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Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:58 am
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We do go in circles with this subject. There seem to be three key denial strategies preferred on Nick’s - first, there’s no such thing as anthropogenic climate change and the tens of thousands of scientists who say there is are wrong because some geologist whose research is funded by a petrochemical company says so; secondly, the climate is changing but it’s like a drop in the ocean compared to larger forces that are at play - and, in any event, the planet used to be molten lava, so it’s cooler, now, and we’re probably due for an ice age, shortly, so burning a bit more coal will help to keep us warm in the dark days ahead; and thirdly, there is (or may be) anthropogenic climate change - but we are obviated from dealing with it because the problem is caused by country X and we can’t control what they do - thus we should just sit on our hands and watch, let it happen and die content.

All those purported arguments are pathetic and stupid - when even “I’ve brought some coal into Parliament because it is so lovely” Morrison starts accepting that action must be taken to address “climate” and pretending that was always his Government’s policy, you know that the jig is up.

I’m actually tired of deluded people who know nothing of value about any area of science coming on here and denigrating the hard work of tens of thousands of scientists from all countries and all walks of life who do - the suggestion that it’s a massive conspiracy in which almost anyone with a science degree is engaged is pathetic nonsense.
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PyreneesPie Pisces

PyreneesPie


Joined: 22 Aug 2014


PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:21 pm
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Pies4shaw wrote:
We do go in circles with this subject. There seem to be three key denial strategies preferred on Nick’s - first, there’s no such thing as anthropogenic climate change and the tens of thousands of scientists who say there is are wrong because some geologist whose research is funded by a petrochemical company says so; secondly, the climate is changing but it’s like a drop in the ocean compared to larger forces that are at play - and, in any event, the planet used to be molten lava, so it’s cooler, now, and we’re probably due for an ice age, shortly, so burning a bit more coal will help to keep us warm in the dark days ahead; and thirdly, there is (or may be) anthropogenic climate change - but we are obviated from dealing with it because the problem is caused by country X and we can’t control what they do - thus we should just sit on our hands and watch, let it happen and die content.


Summed up pretty accurately I'd say and in a very direct manner! Wink
The "fiddling while Rome burns" idiom has come into my mind a lot lately.
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David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:30 pm
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Interesting analogy here:

https://www.australiandefence.com.au/news/superpower-launches-direct-attack-on-australia

Quote:
The first signs of trouble were similar to those 78 years ago, when Imperial Japan became the first foreign power to launch direct attacks on modern Australia. The steady gain of power in the South Pacific, eroding the defences of small island nations until it conquered them entirely. It was a violation of that basic foundation of Australian strategy – preventing non-aligned powers from gaining a foothold in our region – but this time, we were too slow to react.

This time, Australia was economically dependent on the encroaching superpower. That dependence blinded us. Warnings came time and again from our neighbours and from others outside government, but it all fell on deaf ears.

And so the superpower quietly eroded our defences. Politicians from both sides received donations from business types with murky ties, massive investments in infrastructure won influence and friends in the right places: all strings that were pulled to draw curtains over the threat, even as it grew and grew.

We even acknowledged the superpower’s steady encroachment towards our territory, but we chose appeasement. We reminded ourselves that we had powerful friends who could do more than us, and would do more.

Meanwhile, the money kept flowing. “The economy is more important,” leaders said. “Australian jobs depend on it.”

Appeasement weakened our strategic position. When war eventually broke out, we were taken entirely by surprise. The superpower mounted simultaneous assaults across the country, taking out power lines, disrupting telecommunications and cutting off major highways. Entire towns were destroyed virtually overnight as thick smoke rose in great plumes, blanketing lost lives in ash.

The government mobilized the military, but the assault was so great that the ADF was forced to call on reserve troops for the first time in history. Industries and homes were wiped out, hospitals overwhelmed. The town of Eden, a major deep water port not far from Canberra, couldn’t be defended. Warships evacuated thousands by sea as the assault cut off supply lines up and down the east coast.

Help came from allies, but it was too late. The death toll had already grown and kept growing as civilians were left alone to fight back against the assault.

Now imagine if this story were about China. There are enough similarities: the slow and steady growth of power, our dependence on powerful friends to take action, and the economic benefits of appeasement. Some would argue our leaders have been blinded by naïve assumptions as they prioritise wealth over security.

But this isn’t about China. It’s about climate change.


And here's the killer payoff:

Quote:
The government is willing to spend $200 billion in the largest recapitalisation of Australia’s defence industry since WW2, fuelled by valid concerns about the rise of China. Indeed, if China or any other foreign power had inflicted the damage wrought on Australia these last few months, the government would be willing to put the economy on a war footing to fight and win.

Yet it is unwilling to spend more than $3.5 billion on equally valid concerns about the rise of climate change. That’s roughly the cost of a single Attack class submarine. Remember, we’re buying 12.

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Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:05 pm
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Submarines are really, sleek, though.
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David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:23 pm
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Well, to be fair, can you stage a local production of Das Boot in a wind farm? Didn't think so. Check mate, greenies!
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thesoretoothsayer 



Joined: 26 Apr 2017


PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:38 pm
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What's 200 billion if it helps save a couple of SA rust belt seats?
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