 |
|
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
|
| Post subject: |  |
|
| think positive wrote: | Not sure if that's your usual sarcasm!
I really don't believe that, maybe if all the $£$%^%%$ cheats stopped cheating, the budget wouldn't have blown out. I know a couple of people who, at least in the past, not sure if they still do, have really cheated the system, I don't care if it's legal cheating, it's immoral. Stop the cheats, and then the people who really need it, get the help they need and only the total bastards will be left whinging.
For example, a millionaire hiding behind his super scheme and claiming low income benifits and a health care card. A woman working from home, cash hairdresser, who's husband left her and their two kids for a while, claiming the pension and a health. Care card, and continuing to do so after he came back. She actually bragged about getting a discount at the semi private school our kids attended.
$£$%^%%$ disgusting. |
Those are merely examples of the system not working appropriately, just like - eg - the way that some multi-national corporations pay less in tax each year than you do. The fact that there might, in reality, be an actual dole bludger from time to time isn't really a tenable basis for outrage - it's just a reminder that, whatever system and rules you put in place, there'll always be some people who find a way to get things to which they aren't morally entitled. A bit like people who amass wealth by negative-gearing their holiday houses as if they were rental investment property.
The underlying rhetoric of outrage is informative - many people like to say that they are "outraged" about their (allegedly) hard-earned money going for tax to pay "dole bludgers". I doubt that those people would have any sympathy at all for someone like me who is simply outraged and appalled by the acts of horrible class aggression directed on behalf of my elected Government against the most vulnerable members of our society. |
|
|
|
 |
Culprit 
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| As far as Dole Bludgers go, there is and always will be a very small percentage of people who are unemployable. That doesn't stop the media and the Liberal party creating a frenzy about Dole cheats. It's like people posting that all welfare recipients be drug tested. Once again do the maths. This is all about getting votes from the lowest common denominator. Similar to Trumps attacks. We will not get the budget back in the black by getting drip fed money back from over payments or the Pensioner adjustments. As I said before this is about grabbing votes, mainly those back from that smole Hanson. |
|
|
|
|
Dave The Man 
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Pies4shaw wrote: | | ^^^ Dave, I don't think it is actually about saving $$$$ - it's an ideological campaign directed to making poor people who are dependent upon benefits feel worthless. I doubt that they would much care if it cost them $600M to recover $300M - the ritual humiliation and scape-goating is its own reward. |
Then that will lead to more:
-Drugs
-Crime
-Sucides
-Making Society even Worse
_________________
I am Da Man |
|
|
|
|
Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Yes, Dave, we are in heated agreement. |
|
|
|
|
Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Here is a very interesting first-hand account of the process written by someone who was accused of having a debt of over $3,000 in circumstances where Centrelink already had (and acknowledged that it already had) all of the data necessary to show that there was no such debt. The fellow concerned is part of the subject-matter of the article from which David drew his OP. The issue appears to have arisen because of an income-averaging algorithm that gets applied indiscriminately and inappropriately (there is a link in the article from which David quoted that goes so far as to show the screenshots that Mr Griffin took demonstrating the error in the Centrelink "debt-calculation" processing of his income), irrespective of information that Centrelink already has on its files. I'm really appalled (but, sadly, neither shocked nor remotely surprised) that this level of apparent deception and wickedness could be routinely practised by my government against its own citizens:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/05/this-is-what-happened-when-centrelink-called-to-review-my-false-debt-accusation
The author, Michael Griffin, is described on the Guardian website in the following way:
"Michael Griffin is a filmmaker and comedian from Brisbane, Australia. An Emmy and BAFTA winner as part of the Hoodlum team, he currently works as a freelance editor and writer. He's performed sketch, standup and improv across Australia, and his show Sex Nation is playing Melbourne International Comedy Festival 2017."
I look forward, of course, to someone explaining to me that that is actually code for "dole bludger". Arty types - you know, "that ain't workin', that's the way to do it" .... there may be a song in that, somewhere. |
|
|
|
|
Dave The Man
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
|
|
|
|
|
mandy 
Joined: 03 Jun 2001
Location: Glen Iris
|
| Post subject: | |
|
I would rather live in a country that makes welfare available to all, including the odd lazy bludger, than not have it at all.
_________________
#TEAMBUCKS
#TEAMEDDIE
#TEAMCOLLINGWOOD
#SIDEBYSIDE |
|
|
|
|
Dave The Man
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| mandy wrote: | | I would rather live in a country that makes welfare available to all, including the odd lazy bludger, than not have it at all. |
True. Though IF Liberals had there way there be no Welfare at all 
_________________
I am Da Man |
|
|
|
|
Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| mandy wrote: | | I would rather live in a country that makes welfare available to all, including the odd lazy bludger, than not have it at all. |
Except that is not really the choice on offer or the issue here. It is like saying that "I'd rather have pharmaceutical drugs with side effects than no drugs at all". That should not stop us trying to remove the side effects (ie catching and sanctioning cheats and wastrels).
And that, I should add, does not defend the type of bureaucratic bullying that seems to be taking place with these letters.
_________________
Two more flags before I die! |
|
|
|
|
think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Exactly
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
|
|
|
|
Culprit
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
|
| Post subject: | |
|
This is Turdbull  |
|
|
|
|
Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| think positive wrote: | For example, a millionaire hiding behind his super scheme and claiming low income benifits and a health care card
$£$%^%%$ disgusting. |
Why are you upset about the few hundred dollars a month this scumbag is rorting from the pension system, but completely unconcerned by the billions, yes, BILLIONS he and his scumbag mates are rorting out of the tax system via negative gearing, super rorts, expense scams, off-shore tax havens, and capital-income swaps?
_________________
�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
|
|
|
|
think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
|
| Post subject: | |
|
You mean the legal loopholes they take advantage of
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
|
|
|
|
Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| think positive wrote: | | You mean the legal loopholes they take advantage of |
^ Yes, that is the point, TP.
An action may be undesirable without being unlawful. I find a lot of corporate tax behavior immoral, and a lot of private tax avoidance through lawful means unproductive for society, but benefit fraud is different - it is unlawful. The responsibility of government is to enforce the law. If it finds tax behaviour undesirable then it needs to legislate against it. Mixing up fraud and lawful tax minimization is like reacting to a leak by demanding more water is put in the cistern.
_________________
Two more flags before I die! |
|
|
|
|
partypie
Joined: 01 Oct 2010
|
| Post subject: | |
|
What they are doing is saying with minimum investigation that there is a debt and its up to the person to prove there is not. I can't imagine any other organisation being able to do this, with the possible exception of the tax office. If this method becomes acceptable the you can bet the tax office is going to do it if it's not already. It does not gel with the concept of procedural fairness and it will affect those least able to defend themselves.
Yes, there are some people rorting the system but it does not mean that some mad experiment in reducing the deficit aimed at the most vulnerable should be pursued.
If you know someone you think is rorting the system or you hear them boasting about it, dob them in. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum
|
|
The Rules
FAQ
Usergroups
Calendar
Search
Log in
Register
