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We Easily win the Varcoe/Clark/Lumumba Trade

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The Prototype Virgo

Paint my face with a good-for-nothin smile.


Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Location: Hobart, Tasmania

PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:19 am
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swoop42 wrote:
We went hard for Clark and wanted him if memory serves but our due diligence and delay in making a decision say Geelong swoop in before us.

Lucky I guess as the bloke has issues that go beyond depression and injury.

In medical speak it's called being a c***.


The guy had some real shit luck, had the Cats not offered him so much and didn't have so many injury issues he would have been useful. While battling depression isn't the easiest thing, I'd imagine he'd have been given the right support there.

All those injuries had me on the fence about Clark, but I hope he can get good support for all his issues, I am quite happy with Varcoe.

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Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 12:43 am
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John Wren wrote:
it's been a while since we last had a reflective discussion on the merits of dayne beams' departure. am looking forward to reading some new material on it.

He was that little guy who wore 13 and starred in the midfield as Collingwood's best player over the 2 2010 GFs, wasn't he?
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qldmagpie67 



Joined: 18 Dec 2008


PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:41 am
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I think people will always be divided on Beam's due to many believing he choose money over the club.
To be honest as a Collingwood supporter I can understand that but as a family friend I know the reason behind his return home and I will always believe that.
As JW says revision is a wonderful thing.
We have certainly done well out of that trade and the Varcoe trade as well.
Beams was pick 29 so he came with little fanfare and expectation.
He choose the draft over the Suns who had guaranteed him a certain AFL career and with there concessions in salary cap he would have earned more money right away instead of going to another club and getting the standard AFL rookie wage.
He basically forced his way into the side almost immediately with his work ethic and ability to handle playing against men
He was never silky smooth like a Pendles but he won many admirers for being like another rough diamond we had in Swanny.
Many seem to forget that he knocked back several offers over his time with us from the Suns who made no secret of there desire to get him home. If media reports are even roughly accurate he gave up many hundreds of thousands of dollars to stay with the pies when he could have easily taken the cash.
Yes the club was good for him and I believe he developed into the player he became because of the club in many ways.
He got the chance to play along side Pendles and Swanny which would only enhance his game just by learning from them.
Ultimately he went back to Queensland and yes he was very handsomely rewarded for it but the facts are he had a father battling bowel cancer and he got the best deal hew could for himself and his family in doing so.
In today's climate with the market being so fluid players taking care of themselves is a everyday occurrence. Clubs will cut or trade players at there whim but when the reverse happens we all cry foul.
We won on the trade and his knees are basically shot so hindsight says he has actually done us a favour when you consider he could still be on our list on very good coin and not playing (as if we don't have enough players with leg issues)
A premiership player, copeland winner, all Australian and no one would ever doubt his commitment to putting his body on the line for the club every time he took the field. Not a bad return for a late second pick
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Lazza 



Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:26 am
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qldmagpie67 wrote:
I think people will always be divided on Beam's due to many believing he choose money over the club.
To be honest as a Collingwood supporter I can understand that but as a family friend I know the reason behind his return home and I will always believe that.
As JW says revision is a wonderful thing.
We have certainly done well out of that trade and the Varcoe trade as well.
Beams was pick 29 so he came with little fanfare and expectation.
He choose the draft over the Suns who had guaranteed him a certain AFL career and with there concessions in salary cap he would have earned more money right away instead of going to another club and getting the standard AFL rookie wage.
He basically forced his way into the side almost immediately with his work ethic and ability to handle playing against men
He was never silky smooth like a Pendles but he won many admirers for being like another rough diamond we had in Swanny.
Many seem to forget that he knocked back several offers over his time with us from the Suns who made no secret of there desire to get him home. If media reports are even roughly accurate he gave up many hundreds of thousands of dollars to stay with the pies when he could have easily taken the cash.
Yes the club was good for him and I believe he developed into the player he became because of the club in many ways.
He got the chance to play along side Pendles and Swanny which would only enhance his game just by learning from them.
Ultimately he went back to Queensland and yes he was very handsomely rewarded for it but the facts are he had a father battling bowel cancer and he got the best deal hew could for himself and his family in doing so.
In today's climate with the market being so fluid players taking care of themselves is a everyday occurrence. Clubs will cut or trade players at there whim but when the reverse happens we all cry foul.
We won on the trade and his knees are basically shot so hindsight says he has actually done us a favour when you consider he could still be on our list on very good coin and not playing (as if we don't have enough players with leg issues)
A premiership player, copeland winner, all Australian and no one would ever doubt his commitment to putting his body on the line for the club every time he took the field. Not a bad return for a late second pick


I hear what you say but to be REALLY honest (a dangerously anti PC thing to do these days) I want to know the fair dinkum answers to these two question from you qldmagpie67, a poster I fully respect here on Nick's.

1. How ill was his dad OR was it just an excuse? (BTW, IF his dad WAS really ill, I wish him all the best in his recovery)

2. And this is the one that confused the crap out of me. If his dad lives on the Gold Coast, WTF did he go to the Brion's instead of GCS which would have been the logical and sensible thing to do surely?

My own take on this (without any substantial evidence to support my humble opinion) is this.

A. He highly exaggerated his father's illness and "used" it to return to Qld.

B. He was "got at" by the Brion's administration long before he left Collingwood. They conspired all season to get him away from Collingwood and came up with the plan he ultimately used.

I stand to be corrected and kicked in the arse if I'm wrong.

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RudeBoy 



Joined: 28 Nov 2005


PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 3:32 pm
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I love your passion Lazza, but I reckon you ought to ease up a bit on this. All players are individuals and are entitled to make their own minds about where they'd like to play their football. Regardless of how sick his old man was, Beam's wanted to go home to his family and I bare him no grudge for that. He shouldn't have to justify his personal reasons to anybody. Anyway, we are miles ahead from that deal imo, so I'm actually glad about how it all panned out.
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Lazza 



Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:17 pm
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I hear you RB but I think you are missing my main point here. I wish for pure honesty and plain transparency in dealings, not Nigerian type bullshit to get you sucked in. He was the one who offered the reasons and I'm the one who smells a rat, mainly to do with the bloody Brions. My opinion is that the Brions got to him during the year and it was a done deal well before he informed Collingwood. However as I have said, I have zero evidence to support this so I don't have a leg to stand on, except for my eternal suspicion and perpetual distrust of the Brions. That is why I asked a top poster in qldmagpie67 to help clarify this issue and enlighten me.
As for the result of the deal, I agree with you but that was not my concern. I'm fast losing passion for the game as it is but it gets far bloody worse when one of your own star players takes you for a sucker ride. Mad Evil or Very Mad

Maybe I need to be more PC but that will never ever happen in a million years.... Rolling Eyes

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neil Sagittarius



Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Location: Queensland

PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:20 pm
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Beams leaving BAD Varcoe Treloar Aish WHE Wells Jolly Ball Buckley etc joining GOOD

When a player leaves us we whinge about loyalty and money we NEVER mention these when a player joins us

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Lazza 



Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:32 pm
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neil wrote:
Beams leaving BAD Varcoe Treloar Aish WHE Wells Jolly Ball Buckley etc joining GOOD

When a player leaves us we whinge about loyalty and money we NEVER mention these when a player joins us


Not with me Neil. I have said from the start that if a player doesn't WANT to play for Collingwood (whereas I would walk on broken jagged glass underwater to do so if I had the talent), he should piss off ASAP. BTW, NOT talking of players sent packing by the club like Heater. What I like about these agency deals are that the players CHOSE to come to Collingwood.
I have recently thawed out a bit mainly due to Darcy but for many years I hated Peter Moore for leaving Collingwood (as well as Walsh, Annear, Stewart etc. who went to Richmond, among many others like even Thommo, Jerker Jenkins and Tuddy although to his credit, Tuddy came back.)

I must be the biggest black and white blooded dinosaur here but at least I'm honest about my opinions...... Rolling Eyes

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MJ23 



Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:12 pm
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I liked Beams for his in and under work and goal kicking ability.
That said defensively he was poor and did not run both ways. This was clear in many live games I saw and I think was even worse in the game I saw him playing for Bris against GWS. Kicked two of the cheapest goals Ive seen in footy. His stats will say he had a good game, his opposition mids ran off him at will and Bris was flogged.

I dont think he was as up front about his reasoning to leave, simply because if he was to be believed he would have been happy going to GC or Bris - that wasn't the case. No secret his good mate Heath was in his ear after being booted. In the end the compensation we got for him was better than what we got out of him. Not saying hes not a gun, just that Crisp and Degoey alone are a part of our future best 22, that's without Levi AND the conversations we started with Aish allowing us to pick him up the next year.

He is a premiership player although if I had to choose outa him and sidey from a performance point of view in both Gf's Im gonna go with sidey.

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qldmagpie67 



Joined: 18 Dec 2008


PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:37 pm
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Lazza here's the honest answers to both questions

His father was and is still battling bowel cancer. Whilst his current prognosis is decent at the time of Dayne's decision he was still undergoing treatment and his long term health was a real issue. I'm happy to report that his long term health whilst not perfect he doesn't have a death sentence hanging over his head currently but as everyone knows who's had to deal with cancer it never really gone forever

My understanding was the Suns didn't show loads of interest in him at the time he was looking to return to Queensland. They were a bit like a scorned lover who had been rejected once to often and only made a offer out of respect well below his market value.
The Lions were very aggressive in there approach and there offer was IMO way above market value (6yrs for $5 million) but you can't blame anyone for taking such a a offer

Mate I was as gutted as anyone when he said he was leaving I said all along I thought he would stay and I know there was no pressure from his father to return in fact it was quite the opposite as his dad isn't enough type of bloke who wants anyone making fuss over him. I think the real catalyst was he was and is very close to his dad and the thought of not being there if he was required as the eldest son played heavily on his mind
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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:10 pm
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^

I get that.

Even if dad was in remission, it's a scare that focuses your priorities and as you said, cancer is the gift that keeps giving. You don't ever beat it, the best you can hope is to delay it long enough to have quality of life until the inevitable.

I can get why a son would want to be close to his dad in that situation. If he lives for another 20 years, that's great, but while that could happen it could also come back hard and quickly.

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Raw Hammer 



Joined: 11 Sep 2008
Location: The Gutter

PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:15 pm
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Beams was a gun for us. Had mongrel, didn't take a backward step. Second last year with us was elite. But he never played one good final with us, and looking at the Lions, he's unlikely to play finals again. I was gutted at the time and am still dirty that he got a 'real' premiership medal in 2010 instead of Leon Davis, due to the fact that Besms did SWA in the GF replay and Leon prob would've flourished up forward with the amount of pill we went inside 50.
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qldmagpie67 



Joined: 18 Dec 2008


PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:30 pm
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stui magpie wrote:
^

I get that.

Even if dad was in remission, it's a scare that focuses your priorities and as you said, cancer is the gift that keeps giving. You don't ever beat it, the best you can hope is to delay it long enough to have quality of life until the inevitable.

I can get why a son would want to be close to his dad in that situation. If he lives for another 20 years, that's great, but while that could happen it could also come back hard and quickly.


Stui mate very good words. I knew of his fathers condition months before it become public knowledge and for obvious reasons didn't post anything about it. I know the club went out of there way giving Dayne time away when he needed it and did all they could to accommodate Dayne's needs during that time.
Eddie personally rang Dayne on a weekly basis checking in about his dad and Bucks like wise made sure he took time out every couple days to enquire about it and make sure Dayne was ok.
I said at the time the decision he made wasn't done out of greed. If you knew the family you would understand loyalty is something they value very highly.
Dayne decided he wanted to be close to his father the money wasn't the determining factor. Had he stayed he would have been on very good coin here as well (not the same obviously) but he had knocked back larger offers twice previously from the Suns (considerably more) to stay
End of the day as a pies supporter we haven't lost out in the deal and have actually won really considering his knee issues now
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Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:33 pm
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So, anyway, has anybody cited Keeffe or Thomas, yet?
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themonk 



Joined: 02 Mar 2004


PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:38 am
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I really dont care about this 'who won the trade" rubbish, I think what's important is that you bring in guns and try to retain players you dont wish to lose.

However, why are people bagging Beams, he is a 26 year old gun who's had some knee issues for the past 2 years, he may have another 6 years in front of him? is Collingwood putting a line through Scharenberg? no, same goes with Brisbane & Beams.

btw I love DeGoey but he is not the complete package yet, Crisp has had 1 strong season in his AFL career and Greenwood is inconsistent, all decent players but none have yet to exceed or even match what Beams consistently delivered for several years.
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