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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| stui magpie wrote: | It's a complicated topic and many people have stories.
I provided some examples which go against the norm, but the norm is still the norm.
it's too easy to say to someone they should just leave because it's way more complicated than that. Emotion and logic are notoriously bad bedfellows. Not to mention that statistically (i'm told, haven't researched it myself) a woman is at most danger in an abusive relationship if/when she's about to leave.
For many, the majority of the violence is psychological not physical and even when it is physical the psychological damage can be more than the physical.
It's a complicated thing and black and white solutions don't work well in that environment. |
I totally agree with you, and it sums up my mums situation, I just wish, for her sake more than mine, that should had had a way out a lot earlier, when she finally left, she had wasted 44 years of her life on him. And the she got sick almost straight away. Her mother was old fashioned and scary, and then we went to Cyprus where we knew no one, and then came out here, and again, no one. She wasn't allowed to work, she had to cook a full meal with dessert every lunch time, he came home from work for lunch. She didn't bring friends home, (nor did we) because he would deliberately embarrass us, just such a bully. For a long time I was angry with her for not leaving, for allowing us to go through it, and then in time I realised she had no escape.
The more people talk about it the better, so many if my friends have similar and worse stories. It's a different time now, and women, and men, need to know help is out there. And you never never settle for less than you deserve.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| think positive wrote: | | who's to judge someones maturity in this situation? the thread is about family violence. im pretty sure every husband and wife regardless of sex, have arguments, have treated the other unfairly, (those with the perfect marriage, never have a cross word blah blah blah, uhhuh someone is over compromising) so i definately agree with you there, but its a big leap to violence. sin? sins can be forgiven, knocking someone senseless is never forgivable, its never a mistake. its not respecting someone enough to keep your anger in check, its about making the wrong choice. |
Oh, the level of violence clearly matters. Knocked senseless ? That probably is grounds for getting the hell out of there at the earliest opportunity, 99.999% of the time. A slap in anger after ten years without any violence at all ? Well, probably, but not certainly. I'd never defend it, but context matters in whether you decide it is forgivable or not. And as for raising the voice, well, that individual probably lives in a perfect world.
Reading your posts about your father, it clearly sounds like one of those cases where leaving earlier would have been better.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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In defence of my ex-girlfriend, I don't think she was ever expecting sainthood from a partner; rather, I think she was making the point that no-one in a respectful relationship should ever feel the need to yell or raise their voice at their partner, and that – like bullying, or emotional manipulation, or slapping – it's just not something that anyone should have to tolerate.
I don't know for sure that she would have ever followed through on it. Length of relationship would probably play a mitigating role – so if someone yelled at her within the first couple of months, perhaps that would have been it (which is fair enough, given that you obviously wouldn't come back for more if someone did that to you on a first date!).
But more than anything I think this was less to be understood as a literal statement of intent than a way of sending a message about just how disrespectful and unnecessary she considered such behaviour to be. All I can say is that it seemed quite reasonable to me at the time.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| David wrote: | In defence of my ex-girlfriend, I don't think she was ever expecting sainthood from a partner; rather, I think she was making the point that no-one in a respectful relationship should ever feel the need to yell or raise their voice at their partner, and that – like bullying, or emotional manipulation, or slapping – it's just not something that anyone should have to tolerate.
I don't know for sure that she would have ever followed through on it. Length of relationship would probably play a mitigating role – so if someone yelled at her within the first couple of months, perhaps that would have been it (which is fair enough, given that you obviously wouldn't come back for more if someone did that to you on a first date!).
But more than anything I think this was less to be understood as a literal statement of intent than a way of sending a message about just how disrespectful and unnecessary she considered such behaviour to be. All I can say is that it seemed quite reasonable to me at the time. |
That actually makes perfect sense to me, and it probably reflects my view that the time you have been together, the frequency of the nasty event, the context of the behaviour - all of these matter. As another example, I shouted at my children jus a couple of times while they were growing up, each time registering the fright in their eyes and then regretting it very much. It does not mean that the majority of their upbringing was not essentially kindly, warm and positive. In emotionally intense relationships indifference or coldness can be worse than occasional overt bad behaviour, so generalising from outside a relationship can be very misleading.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| Mugwump wrote: | | In emotionally intense relationships indifference or coldness can be worse than occasional overt bad behaviour, so generalising from outside a relationship can be very misleading. |
I think that's an excellent point.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| coldness can be worse than occasional overt bad behaviour so generalising from a relationship can be misleading. |
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ronrat
Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: Thailand
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u soon to be ex girlftiend hit ne on the head today with a shifting spanner.17 stitches. She needs [rofessional help. IfI has the money I would have gone back to Australiaon next available, Her son finishes primary school at the end of the month and she can eff off,
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Annoying opposition supporters since 1967. |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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^ that's a get the hell out of there moment, I'd have thought. 17 stitches ! Hope you're healing, RR.
_________________
Two more flags before I die! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| David wrote: | | Mugwump wrote: | | In emotionally intense relationships indifference or coldness can be worse than occasional overt bad behaviour, so generalising from outside a relationship can be very misleading. |
I think that's an excellent point. |
Yeah I agree to a point. And take into consideration the different ways females and males see displays of effection etc. nothing worse than feeling closed out. Imagine living with both.
But I gotta tell you, I don't care if the mans a saint, smack me on the head with a shifter even after 20 years of perfect, and I'm out that door for good.
She should be arrested Ronrat, she could have killed you. Get out now. And make sure her family, the boy's father, know what happened. Not a healthy place for that little boy.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Thats terrible, RR. Sorry to hear that. Has there been a history of that kind of violence from her, or did this come out of the blue?
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| ronrat wrote: | | u soon to be ex girlftiend hit ne on the head today with a shifting spanner.17 stitches. She needs [rofessional help. IfI has the money I would have gone back to Australiaon next available, Her son finishes primary school at the end of the month and she can eff off, |
&%%&.
I wouldn't be waiting til the end of the month, I'd be a tad twitchy about going to sleep one night and having my head caved in while sleeping, but as is usual i don't know all he circs.
take care of yourself and do the right thing.....for you.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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