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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
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Post subject: Last Tango in Paris and the exploitation of Maria Schneider | |
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Last Tango in Paris is one of my favourite films, and regarded by many as one of the great works of European cinema of the 1970s. It was also a film that pushed censorship boundaries in its day. One scene – anyone who has watched the film will know what I mean – has always remained particularly notorious; but perhaps, as it turns out, much less so than it should have been.
http://www.elle.com/culture/movies-tv/news/a41202/bertolucci-last-tango-in-paris-rape-scene-non-consensual/
Quote: | It's known as one of the most infamous rape scenes in Hollywood history—but Last Tango in Paris director Bernardo Bertolucci admitted in a recently surfaced video that star Maria Schneider never consented to it.
Instead, Bertolucci confessed in the 2013 clip that he and Marlon Brando came up with the idea to shoot the assault scene in which Brando's character uses a stick of butter to rape Schneider on screen. At the time, Brando was 48. Schneider was just 19.
"The sequence of the butter is an idea that I had with Marlon in the morning before shooting," Bertulocci said in an event held at La Cinémathèque Française in Paris in 2013. He added that he felt horrible "in a way" for his treatment of Schneider but defended himself, explaining that he "wanted her reaction as a girl, not as an actress."
"I wanted her to react humiliated," he said. "I think she hated me and also Marlon because we didn't tell her." Even so, Bertolucci clarified that he didn't "regret" how he decided to direct the scene.
"To obtain something I think you have to be completely free," he said. "I didn't want Maria to act her humiliation her rage, I wanted her to Maria to feel...the rage and humiliation. Then she hated me for all of her life."
After Last Tango in Paris, Schneider never shot another nude scene. She struggled with drug addiction and depression following the attention the movie brought her. In an exclusive to the Daily Mail in 2007, Schneider wrote that she had felt violated by the experience.
"I felt humiliated and to be honest, I felt a little raped, both by Marlon and by Bertolucci," she said. "After the scene, Marlon didn't console me or [apologize]. Thankfully, there was just one take." |
That this was an appalling abuse of power goes without saying. It was also, on the face of it, a pretty clear-cut case of sexual assault (although the sex was, of course, simulated). Knowing this, what are the ethical obligations of viewers? Should I throw my DVD in the bin? Should the film even be commercially available? Or is it ok to still value it as a work of art, albeit one produced in less than ethical circumstances? What do you think? _________________ All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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So which bit is simulated? Was she actually raped with the butter?
Not fussed about the movie it's too bloody late now, but was Maria consenting about this coming out?
And gees there sure is some scummy people directing movies out there! So called art at any cost hey? _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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To Try to rephrase your question with simpler words. |
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luvdids
Joined: 22 Mar 2008 Location: work
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If you bought it and saw it before knowing about the assault I think is different to knowing about the assault and THEN going to buy it.
Why would you want to watch/support/contribute to profits of someone who committed such a thing (if buying/watching it after knowing)?! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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luvdids wrote: | If you bought it and saw it before knowing about the assault I think is different to knowing about the assault and THEN going to buy it.
Why would you want to watch/support/contribute to profits of someone who committed such a thing (if buying/watching it after knowing)?! |
That's a really good point!
Not my kind of movie, but gees I hope she's ok, pretty awful then and now to bring it back, _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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swoop42
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008 Location: The 18
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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think positive wrote: | luvdids wrote: | If you bought it and saw it before knowing about the assault I think is different to knowing about the assault and THEN going to buy it.
Why would you want to watch/support/contribute to profits of someone who committed such a thing (if buying/watching it after knowing)?! |
That's a really good point!
Not my kind of movie, but gees I hope she's ok, pretty awful then and now to bring it back, |
She's not OK, she's dead.
After the movie she had some issues let's just say _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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Oh
Well that sux. I still wouldn't watch it. But like I said, not my kind of movie
Maybe put the director in a cell with Aileen Wuornos, Bugger she's dead too. Kind of a shame this came out then, adds mystery to the movie. _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
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think positive wrote: | So which bit is simulated? Was she actually raped with the butter?
Not fussed about the movie it's too bloody late now, but was Maria consenting about this coming out?
And gees there sure is some scummy people directing movies out there! So called art at any cost hey? |
She wasn't actually raped, no. Without knowing the exact details, one presumes that – and I wish there were a more delicate way to put this – Brando lubricated her anus with butter before the simulated sex scene. So, as Stui says above, still a sexual assault given that she didn't consent to it.
luvdids wrote: | If you bought it and saw it before knowing about the assault I think is different to knowing about the assault and THEN going to buy it.
Why would you want to watch/support/contribute to profits of someone who committed such a thing (if buying/watching it after knowing)?! |
I bought it and watched it years ago, and wasn't aware about this then. Hard to say whether or not I would now. _________________ All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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swoop42
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008 Location: The 18
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While it's not directly related Hollywood's still biggest dirty secret is the casting couch and what some actresses and actors are willing or feel coerced to do for the chance at stardom.
Just Google Harvey Weinstein casting couch for a little insight.
As for the incident itself are the ramblings of what must be now an old man to be totally believed?
There isn't some anniversary edition of LTIP coming out is there? _________________ He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Location: Between London and Melbourne
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I saw it many years ago. The second worst thing about that infamous scene is the ludicrous monologue Brando says during the act. It sums up the pretentiousness of a movie that was sold on sex because it had so little to say that was interesting - no real plot, no credible characters or character development, and nothing very useful to say about real life or relationships.
On the ethical question, David, if you know or believe that it contains genuinely coercive sex then I think you should have nothing to do with it. No-one needs to own a film of what is in effect an actual anal rape. _________________ Two more flags before I die! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
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If I agreed with you that it was a worthless film, this would be far less of a problem; it would be easy to dismiss. As it is, I think it's a masterpiece of cinematography and music, and the acting (particularly Brando's) is superb.
I guess there are two distinct (but perhaps overlapping) questions being dealt with in your post: one about artistic merit, one about morality. If you knew, theoretically, that the greatest film ever made was made in unethical circumstances – not necessarily what happened to Schneider; it could be anything from technicians being unpaid, to animal cruelty, to exploitation of minors, to violent or sexual abuse of a cast member – would you be so quick to blacklist it? Or might you recognise and condemn the ethical failings, support penalties for the perpetrators and/or restriction of its profitability but continue to recognise it as a great film despite these failings?
What I'm getting at, I guess, is that viewing doesn't have to be a passive thing. We do have the ability to watch something critically (or choose not to, if that is our preference). To consume a work of art is not the same thing as endorsing it, or all parts of it.
In the realm of practical ethics, watching or not watching Last Tango in Paris now can neither harm nor help Schneider, nor anyone else. And I don't just mean because she is no longer alive; I mean that, beyond some vague sense of "people are watching it" (true whether you choose to or not), she could have never been aware of your personal decision to watch it to begin with. If you were to, say, download or borrow the film, you would not be financially rewarding the director or producers. I wonder, then, if your main concern here is the ongoing maintenance of our own personal moral fibre, and perhaps a concern that watching a film like this might degrade it. Is that a fair summation, do you think? _________________ All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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luvdids
Joined: 22 Mar 2008 Location: work
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I guess you've made your decision then.
Sounds like everyone should watch whatever they want then, regardless of the way it was made - laws broken, all the examples you mentioned - they don't matter?
Where do you draw the line? (I hate to think)
I guess since it's 'art' there is no line. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
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I haven't made up my mind, no – it's possible that I will never watch the film again. It's something I'll have to decide for myself when the time comes.
I think you're interpreting the thoughts I'm putting out here as something more didactic; as I said in the original post, I think there are serious ethical questions for viewers to consider here, and I don't think they're necessarily resolved by any stretch.
My tentative inclination is that art should be held to a different standard to, say, advertising or other media. That doesn't mean that illegal or unethical acts should be tolerated or go unpunished, however. If this case had gone to court, I would have been in favour of Bertolucci and Brando facing the consequences of their actions.
What do we do with footage of unethical or criminal acts, though? Clearly, no-one would suggest that we ban recordings of Nazi concentration camps or the Vietnam War, for instance. I know that's a very different context and made for a totally different reason (documentary footage of historical human rights abuses as opposed to some director's pretentious, spur-of-the-moment desire to make his actress suffer), but there's still the question of how a viewer should react to or approach such images. There's a big (albeit unregulatable) difference between watching Last Tango in Paris as a film historian and watching it to get off. _________________ All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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