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More states legalize Pot 8) when for Oz?

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When will it be legal here?
Within 2 years
20%
 20%  [ 3 ]
2-5 years
13%
 13%  [ 2 ]
6-10 years
6%
 6%  [ 1 ]
11-20 years
26%
 26%  [ 4 ]
It'll never happen
33%
 33%  [ 5 ]
Total Votes : 15

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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:52 pm
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Nah, I started again a while back.

e-cigs are a great example of why I think there will be serious pushback on legalising dope from the wowser so called health experts

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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:13 pm
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https://www.smh.com.au/national/weed-s-ok-for-young-brains-us-study-says-but-our-experts-not-so-sure-20180419-p4zak7.html
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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:11 pm
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K wrote:
https://www.smh.com.au/national/weed-s-ok-for-young-brains-us-study-says-but-our-experts-not-so-sure-20180419-p4zak7.html


Pro-drug propaganda - in music, in film, in comedy and in clickbait headlines like this - is overwhelming. Some very rich people have big plans to make a lot of money from this product, and they are going to win, as they usually do.

The Headline on this article is a classic of the type. The first thing you read is the positive statement - drugs do you no harm. The negative case is smeared in as an afterthought..... as a vague “maybe”.

The actual article then shows clearly that the new study on which the “positive” findings are based is practically meaningless, being a “meta-study” with no methodological consistency as to definitions, experimental method, or harm measurement.

And yet, what does it actually find in this methodological soup ?? That there are “significant but small effects” ! The opposite of the headline, with significance being considered the standard of proof in statistical studies of this type. And of course the study says nothing - and can say nothing - of the individual lives wrecked through drugged driving, induced psychosis, or the intellectual and social lethargy and desolated promise that comes through heavy use.

You really could not make it up. We live so soaked in propaganda that we no longer have the faculties to notice it. O Brave New World - Anzacs to Prozacs, in two generations.

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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:20 pm
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thesoretoothsayer wrote:
The Greens's policies so far this year:

1. free money (universal basic income)
2. loans for everyone (people's bank)
3. legalised ganja

So basically we all sit around stoned whilst the govt. throws money at us.
What could possibly go wrong?


It’ll be fine. There are always a few idiots who think that the life of a free man or woman means living with an ethic of personal responsibility : earn your own money, feed your family, defend your country, put more into the state than you take out, and obey reasonable laws. They can be relied upon to support the Greens constituency. Can’t they ?

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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:46 pm
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It'd be better if this thread also had the poll question, "should it be legalized?", rather than just an invitation to predict when it might be.
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HAL 

Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.


Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:47 pm
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What is it?
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think positive Libra

Side By Side


Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:19 am
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stui magpie wrote:
Nah, I started again a while back.

e-cigs are a great example of why I think there will be serious pushback on legalising dope from the wowser so called health experts


Why? I dont see a connection?

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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:21 am
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Mugwump wrote:
...
It is certainly interesting that nearly every major terrorist atrocity in Europe, including the recent Westminster case, has been committed by people with a record of heavy cannabis use. It does not prove anything, but it suggests an hypothesis worth testing. The human brain is not designed to be messed about chemicals in this way, so it would be unsurprising if negative effects and structural changes arose with repeated, regular use by vulnerable people.
...

Is there a reliable source that documents this?

I am also reminded of the claim that every mass murder in the US has been committed by someone who was on prescription mind-altering drugs, such as SSRIs or benzos. Does anyone know if there is a reliable source to back up this separate claim?
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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:32 am
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K wrote:
Mugwump wrote:
...
It is certainly interesting that nearly every major terrorist atrocity in Europe, including the recent Westminster case, has been committed by people with a record of heavy cannabis use. It does not prove anything, but it suggests an hypothesis worth testing. The human brain is not designed to be messed about chemicals in this way, so it would be unsurprising if negative effects and structural changes arose with repeated, regular use by vulnerable people.
...

Is there a reliable source that documents this?

I am also reminded of the claim that every mass murder in the US has been committed by someone who was on prescription mind-altering drugs, such as SSRIs or benzos. Does anyone know if there is a reliable source to back up this separate claim?


I don’t think there is a major study on it, K, which is why I referred to it as an hypothesis worth testing. I was made aware of it via an article by a Dr Max Pemberton in the Daily Mail on 24 May 2017. ( I don’t read the Mail, which I consider biased, so it must have been via a link). A search engine will find it for you. I give the article some credence because I have noticed it in each report of each incident as they have happened. Religious people do not tend to use drugs, but the very great majority of the terrorists have reportedly been heavy users. That seems to me odd.

The point about SSRIs is one I have also seen before. The correlation vs causation question can be even more difficult than usual for obvious reasons here, and clearly all 9/11 hijackers were unlikely to be heavy users of drugs, so it’d need a good study to get near the truth. But the observation is striking, and any drug that seriously messes with the neurotransmitters should be expected to have odd effects in some individuals, so it is worth testing. I hope someone does so. There are many people and businesses who would not want to see the matter looked into, I am sure.

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Skids Cancer

Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.


Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:59 am
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Most pizzas, muffins and chocolate bars are eaten by people who use cannabis regularly Wink
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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:24 pm
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^ I'm reminded of someone once patiently explaining, "Remember that night when we came back all hungry?"
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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:34 pm
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Mugwump wrote:
K wrote:
...
I am also reminded of the claim that every mass murder in the US has been committed by someone who was on prescription mind-altering drugs, such as SSRIs or benzos. Does anyone know if there is a reliable source to back up this separate claim?

...
The point about SSRIs is one I have also seen before. The correlation vs causation question can be even more difficult than usual for obvious reasons here, ...

Yeah, first things first, though. I'd like to be more sure there actually is a correlation first, before pondering causation.

The article
http://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/another-mass-shooting-potentially-linked-to-psychiatric-drugs-1002085657
mentions Citizens Commission on Human Rights International (CCHR) and also says:
"WND also reported that nearly every mass shooter in recent decades used mind-altering drugs prior to or during their acts of violence — a trend that CCHR has been tracking and documenting, especially since the Columbine high school shooting in 1999 when an antidepressant was implicated in the mass killing."

But I have no idea how reliable a source WND is. I'd like to check out the respectability of CCHR too. We'll see...

Update:
CCHR was co-founded (in 1969) by the Scientologists. This alone may make some question its respectability...
And let's just say WND does give the impression of certain political biases...
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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:53 pm
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^ Nothing connected with Scientology is respectable by definition. It’s the mark of flake, right there.
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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:08 pm
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think positive wrote:
stui magpie wrote:
Nah, I started again a while back.

e-cigs are a great example of why I think there will be serious pushback on legalising dope from the wowser so called health experts


Why? I dont see a connection?


A government review into e-cigarettes decided not to make it legal to purchase syrup with nicotine in it, despite lots of testimony about how much safer they are then normal cigarettes and how well they work for people who want to quit tobacco. The apparent reason pushed by the wowser health brigade was that young people could start with these and graduate to smoking. Fkn ridiculous logic but it worked.

That same logic and the same mob will sink any plan to legalise dope. They don't need to be right, all they have to do is put enough doubt in the minds of enough pollies

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David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:44 pm
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I'm in agreement with you on that, Stui – sounds like the absolutists got their way at the expense of common sense.
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