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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| Museman wrote: | | neil wrote: | This seems to be true BUT a single rule change by the AFL can change this completely.
The substitute rule is an example
Changing the ruck contest rule ended Steve McKee's career
If the fans and TV demand more classic forward action then watch the need for a dinosaur remerge |
This!
And the rules will change because the game is a joke to watch no matter how they want to Bs on that its great.
The more the inter is capped the more the bigs will come back. |
Agree on that part about the game. It is increasingly like rugby, ugly and cramped to watch and too brutal on players' bodies as well. It doesn't have to be like this.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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What'sinaname 
Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Living rent free
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Funny...a KP forward won the GF for Bulldogs
If Sydneys other KP Forward (Tippet) played well, maybe Sydney win
If GWS's KP Forward (Cameron) plays well, GWS make the GF
I think KP Forwards are pretty important.
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Fighting against the objectification of woman. |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Brent Crosswell, Walls, Alex Jesaulenko, Wade, Hudson, Martello, Royce Hart, David Cloke, Brereton, Dunstall, Hall, Carey, Franklin, Roughead,Travis Cloke, Dawes, Lynch, Brown, Hawkins, Lloyd, Van Der Haar etc etc. What use were these guys? Not one of them played in a winning Grand Final team. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| Post subject: Re: Most key position players are a liability | |
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| AN_Inkling wrote: | Who have been the most maligned players on our list? Excluding Blair it's the big guys: Cloke, White, Frost, Brown, Gault, Witts...
And why? Because some games they don't get a lot of the ball. Maybe they don't move or kick the ball too well. To be blunt, a lot of the time they seem to serve little purpose, and this is true of most big men across the league. Essentially they're special teams players playing a full game. And up until very recently that's been fine. Because they provide structure or they nullify opposition structuralists. Increasingly though, this is changing. Structures are becoming less and less static and require movement that some of these bigger players are not physically or mentally capable of providing. Additionally, to set these structures into motion you need players that can provide quick rebound from defense, something these bigger and less skilled types can not manage. More and more each year the negatives of playing a big man are increasing and the positives diminishing.
This does not mean that the big man is dead. Mostly though you will want your talls to be far more athletic than they've been before, and truly big men will need to be elite to survive. Even a player like Hawkins is starting to look like a dinosaur and may not last much longer. The value of a mediocre big man though is falling through the floor. The negative impact of a player who can't run like a mid is becoming so great that being able to take a few marks (and contested marking continues to decline) is not enough. If a medium can take that position, run far better and at least compete in marking contests, then they are almost certainly a better option.
What it does mean is that big men are no longer required to be successful and while teams will still use them, the numbers across the league will continue to diminish. Your previously standard big-bodied player who could take contested marks or stop a big forward but couldn't run or use the ball too well is already a dying breed and will soon be virtually extinct. Those attributes hold little value in a game where defences can out number your big man, spoil him then run off with little resistance. The odd occasion where a big man gets a few one on ones and causes problems? Well, your midfield or overall structures have failed and need to be fixed. That's where the real game lies.
And this is why I am entirely relaxed about our supposed lack of big men. I see just about anyone over 190cm as big enough and we have plenty of them. What we also have and have not had in the past, is enough players that can run and use the ball. Everyone we let go in this trade period has a deficiency in this aspect, and fans have been crying out for it to be fixed, then some are dismayed when we make the move. The two main reasons our defensive structures so often collapsed in 2016 were lack of run and poor ball use from defence. Losing the big players we have will only help, not hinder our defensive prospects.
So I don't see this as some list management failure. I think it's been a definite plan to fix a weakness. We either wanted to diminish the role of these players or to move them on. This view was strengthened when we did not chase a big man replacement, instead going after the medium, Dunn who is another good user of the ball. A backline with these tall options:
Reid,
Howe,
Dunn,
Goldsack,
Scharenberg,
Oxley,
Keeffe,
Langdon
does not seem lacking for size to me but looks like the makings of a quality zoning and intercepting force, with the type of mobility and penetrative usage needed to damage an opposition on the counter. Could we do with one or two more bigger players? Maybe, especially another younger one. But do we need them? Absolutely not. We're actually not worse off than many other teams and with the number of mediums we have now, could be ahead of the curve in developing a team that fits the modern game rather than continuing to play underperforming bigs due to cultural inertia. I think this has been a brave move and understand why some are apprehensive, but it looks like a definite plan and it will be very interesting to see how it pans out. |
I generally agree with you inky, except I'm not sure I'd be listing Scharenberg and Howe as tall options. They are mid sized players, though Howe's leap does enable him to play a bit 'taller' I guess. |
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