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bally12 
Joined: 30 Sep 2010
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | Member 7167 wrote: | These are two potential scenarios in respect to Gubby Allen.
One.
The player has taken some illegal / recreational drugs and for some reason, he believes that these drugs have been cut with a performance-enhancing drug that has been banned by ASADA. (to me these seems unlikely) He approaches the welfare officer of the club and explains the situation. What is the club official to do? It would seem inappropriate that a representative of the club should immediately ring the AFL and or ASADA and report the player. A normal response would be to look after the best interests of the player and place him into club sponsored accommodation that is intended to be used for player welfare. The club would then be in a position to monitor the player’s health and take appropriate action if his health declined. There were no plans by the AFL or ASADA to test this player and as such no tests were avoided. No requests were made to the club to present the player or to reveal where he was staying so you think that there was no deceptive behaviour in respect to this. I believe that players residing at club sponsored accommodation is common practice and I would suspect that details of where he was staying was not a secret within the club or the playing group.
Two
The player is having issues with his partner and wants out. The relationship has become toxic and volatile. He approaches the club and explains the situation. In response, the club arrange for him to reside at club sponsored accommodation. When queried by his girlfriend who he is trying to avoid he makes up some lame excuses about drug testing etc.
If you look at either case I cannot see how the club officials have done anything that should attract a 12-month ban and the player a 6-month ban
It would seem that there is little evidence that would stand up to a legal appeal if the club employees or the player had to front up to proceeding instigated by either the AFL or ASADA. As for the treat of a 4 year ban, we all know that such a ban would be tested legally and after the Essendon fiasco I am sure that both the AFL and ASADA would be very shy in taking any action that would further undermine the publics confidence in their integrity, processes and/or professionalism. It would be reasonable to assume that if ASADA had a bullet proof case they would not have hesitated in taking action as it would be a means of improving the general public’s perception of ASADA and their processes which have taken a few hits in recent years.
What was Gubby to do that would have looked after the interests of the player, maintained trust between the playing group and the club and at the same time satisfied all AFL requirements?
There are a host of other possible series of events. What are likely and what would generate a 12 month ban?
After all this time the best they could charge Gubby with “behaviour unbecoming” which I suspect is not defined within the AFL rules.
Gubby accepted this under threat that ASADA would take the matter further with a threat of 4 years bans. If they were eventually exonerated it would take years to work through the various legal appeal processes. It would cost a fortune to finance and the players career would be destroyed in the process. |
AFL/ASAADA rules require that the AFL knows at all times where players are, so they are available for random drug testing. 'Hiding' a player, for any reason whatsoever is a breach of the rules/code. |
In the day and age of mobile phones and GPS devices, this "law" that drug testing bodies are informed exactly where an individual is at any one time is comical. The law is antiquated, and impractical.
The poor guy has been done on a hypothetical. So his crime was that he "hid" the player, in the chance that the player might be drug tested, and then banned in the chance the illicit drug was laced with performance-enhancing drugs. A bit of a stretch there.
Sure, in the event that ASADA wanted to test the player and tried to call his mobile and could not be contacted, then go to town on him. To say that Gubby didn't report in which house the player slept, and therefore conclude that he tried to "hide" the player and then subject him to the same 4-year maximum penalty as a drug cheat, is beyond any level of fairness.
Back to the GPS point. If the AFL is serious about locating a player at any point in time, then take the responsibility away from the club. The technology is there. That way the player himself is the only one accountable for not being locateable. Of course that would encroach on personal liberty rights. It's not somewhere the AFL wants to go. So then just get the club manager, whose chief aim is players' welfare, because you deduce that he "hid" someone, based on accusations of the player's ex girlfriend. Do you think the club manager even knows half the time where 20yo kids are sleeping? Wait, we can prove that he knew by way of text messages, that the player wasn't at listed location, and didn't immediately tell the AFL...so let's ban him for 4yrs. Just farcical, AFL.
Gubby, next time do yourself a favour and get Whatsapp. It's encrypted and police (or AFL) cannot access. Sending SMS messages is so 90's. Get with the times. |
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themonk
Joined: 02 Mar 2004
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| still waiting on GWS punishment..........😩 |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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| themonk wrote: | | still waiting on GWS punishment..........😩 |
UNLIKE US THE GIANTS DONT RATE in the media, not at the Hun or Age anyway, so you may not hear anything at all, really. 
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Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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ronrat
Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: Thailand
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No punishment in this draft.A bloody joke, Caro said on Sunday she expects a punishment so maybe she will actually turn her attention to this since she made the running in gunning for Gubby
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Annoying opposition supporters since 1967. |
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Jezza 
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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Presti35 
Dick Lee for Legend Status
Joined: 05 Oct 2001
Location: London, England
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^ Yep. All designed to minimise the damage to GWS.
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A Goal Saved Is 2 Goals Earned! |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| Presti35 wrote: | | ^ Yep. All designed to minimise the damage to AFL official team, GWS. |
Fixed
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| bally12 wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | | Member 7167 wrote: | These are two potential scenarios in respect to Gubby Allen.
One.
The player has taken some illegal / recreational drugs and for some reason, he believes that these drugs have been cut with a performance-enhancing drug that has been banned by ASADA. (to me these seems unlikely) He approaches the welfare officer of the club and explains the situation. What is the club official to do? It would seem inappropriate that a representative of the club should immediately ring the AFL and or ASADA and report the player. A normal response would be to look after the best interests of the player and place him into club sponsored accommodation that is intended to be used for player welfare. The club would then be in a position to monitor the player’s health and take appropriate action if his health declined. There were no plans by the AFL or ASADA to test this player and as such no tests were avoided. No requests were made to the club to present the player or to reveal where he was staying so you think that there was no deceptive behaviour in respect to this. I believe that players residing at club sponsored accommodation is common practice and I would suspect that details of where he was staying was not a secret within the club or the playing group.
Two
The player is having issues with his partner and wants out. The relationship has become toxic and volatile. He approaches the club and explains the situation. In response, the club arrange for him to reside at club sponsored accommodation. When queried by his girlfriend who he is trying to avoid he makes up some lame excuses about drug testing etc.
If you look at either case I cannot see how the club officials have done anything that should attract a 12-month ban and the player a 6-month ban
It would seem that there is little evidence that would stand up to a legal appeal if the club employees or the player had to front up to proceeding instigated by either the AFL or ASADA. As for the treat of a 4 year ban, we all know that such a ban would be tested legally and after the Essendon fiasco I am sure that both the AFL and ASADA would be very shy in taking any action that would further undermine the publics confidence in their integrity, processes and/or professionalism. It would be reasonable to assume that if ASADA had a bullet proof case they would not have hesitated in taking action as it would be a means of improving the general public’s perception of ASADA and their processes which have taken a few hits in recent years.
What was Gubby to do that would have looked after the interests of the player, maintained trust between the playing group and the club and at the same time satisfied all AFL requirements?
There are a host of other possible series of events. What are likely and what would generate a 12 month ban?
After all this time the best they could charge Gubby with “behaviour unbecoming” which I suspect is not defined within the AFL rules.
Gubby accepted this under threat that ASADA would take the matter further with a threat of 4 years bans. If they were eventually exonerated it would take years to work through the various legal appeal processes. It would cost a fortune to finance and the players career would be destroyed in the process. |
AFL/ASAADA rules require that the AFL knows at all times where players are, so they are available for random drug testing. 'Hiding' a player, for any reason whatsoever is a breach of the rules/code. |
In the day and age of mobile phones and GPS devices, this "law" that drug testing bodies are informed exactly where an individual is at any one time is comical. The law is antiquated, and impractical.
The poor guy has been done on a hypothetical. So his crime was that he "hid" the player, in the chance that the player might be drug tested, and then banned in the chance the illicit drug was laced with performance-enhancing drugs. A bit of a stretch there.
Sure, in the event that ASADA wanted to test the player and tried to call his mobile and could not be contacted, then go to town on him. To say that Gubby didn't report in which house the player slept, and therefore conclude that he tried to "hide" the player and then subject him to the same 4-year maximum penalty as a drug cheat, is beyond any level of fairness.
Back to the GPS point. If the AFL is serious about locating a player at any point in time, then take the responsibility away from the club. The technology is there. That way the player himself is the only one accountable for not being locateable. Of course that would encroach on personal liberty rights. It's not somewhere the AFL wants to go. So then just get the club manager, whose chief aim is players' welfare, because you deduce that he "hid" someone, based on accusations of the player's ex girlfriend. Do you think the club manager even knows half the time where 20yo kids are sleeping? Wait, we can prove that he knew by way of text messages, that the player wasn't at listed location, and didn't immediately tell the AFL...so let's ban him for 4yrs. Just farcical, AFL.
Gubby, next time do yourself a favour and get Whatsapp. It's encrypted and police (or AFL) cannot access. Sending SMS messages is so 90's. Get with the times. |
actually the "poor" guy, is the "stupid" guy. I hope his girlfriend wasn't as 'stupid' and didn't send naked texts!
Don't put in writing anything you don't want to come back and haunt you.
The fact of the matter is there is proof he didn't want to be found by drug tester, who knows why (well even blind Freddy can figure that one out) and two club officials helped him hide. Use like those missing Essendon records, if you have nothing to hide, you don't hide it!
Poor guy nothing, he's an over paid spoilt brat. Behave for a few years chaps, set yourself up for life. Or don't. But don't cry like a bitch when you get caught out.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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69 years a MAGPIE
Joined: 12 Oct 2015
Location: Hong Kong
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Then it is obvious that the AFL should make retribution to the Essendon Football Club for all penalties upon the club. It was simply a few rogue members of the club's administration that did the wrong and they were punished, so the club itself should have received no further penalties. Absolute bullshit! Allan and Lambert worked for the club, were protecting the club's interests and there fore the club should also be held responsible. No doubt the AFL will scout the next couple of drafts to see what penalties they can impose to have minimal affect on GWS. Disgusted!
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No one needs to get hurt, it's only business. |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Not obvious to me. |
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jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| 69 years a MAGPIE wrote: | | Then it is obvious that the AFL should make retribution to the Essendon Football Club for all penalties upon the club. It was simply a few rogue members of the club's administration that did the wrong and they were punished, so the club itself should have received no further penalties. Absolute bullshit! Allan and Lambert worked for the club, were protecting the club's interests and there fore the club should also be held responsible. No doubt the AFL will scout the next couple of drafts to see what penalties they can impose to have minimal affect on GWS. Disgusted! |
The fact they won't impose penalties prior to this years draft doesn't mean they are letting them off. It would be nice to see the issue resolved this year as it would improve our draft position but if it's the 2017 draft then so be it. They've already traded out their 1st round pick from that draft for Lids so it would likely be a points value stripped. Problem is that they can then trade out another fringe/NQR player for further 1st round picks. |
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69 years a MAGPIE
Joined: 12 Oct 2015
Location: Hong Kong
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True Jackass. Frustration leads to sarcasm - apologies. With no 1st rounder (as it stands) next year, the AFL can certainly strip later picks (let's say R2 and 3) but doesn't that then allow, as you say, GWS to trade out a couple and get back into the 1st round again? Very frustrating.
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No one needs to get hurt, it's only business. |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| Apparently got some great academy picks coming through in 2017 so hopefully their pain will be real. |
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69 years a MAGPIE
Joined: 12 Oct 2015
Location: Hong Kong
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Hopefully Jackass there will be some nice players available at our pick 18 next year.
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No one needs to get hurt, it's only business. |
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Member 7167 
"What Good Fortune For Governments That The People Do Not Think" - Adolf Hitler.
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Location: The Collibran Hideout
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| 69 years a MAGPIE wrote: | | Hopefully Jackass there will be some nice players available at our pick 18 next year. |
 
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Now Retired - Every Day Is A Saturday |
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