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Bob Dylan wins the Nobel Prize in Literature

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Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 6:45 am
Post subject: Bob Dylan wins the Nobel Prize in LiteratureReply with quote

https://www.theguardian.com/books/live/2016/oct/13/nobel-prize-in-literature-2016-liveblog

A worthy winner.

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen,
They'd probably put my head in a guillotine."


And since he got it for literature, we can listen to Judy perform one of his greatest ever poems:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBrB3TicHKM

Or Leon performing another:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4sMSSm0x2A

Or Leon with Bob doing the breathtaking opener from "Greatest Hits Vol II", if only it were on youtube:

"Oh, this old river keeps on rolling, though
No matter what gets in the way and which way the wind does blow
And as long as it does Ill just sit here
And watch the river flow"
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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:56 am
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^ On a par with Kissinger's peace prize, the subject of Tom Lehrer's famous aside. I like Dylan's music and songs, but as a poet he has a good ear for folk music.

Still, any prize for literature awarded to Sartre and Dario Fo, but not to Auden and Nabokov and Henry James, was clearly a few pages short of a full chapter, even before this latest outrage.

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HAL 

Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 8:00 am
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You like Dylan's music and songs but as a poet he has a good ear for folk music.
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think positive Libra

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Joined: 30 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 8:00 am
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Oh wow I just googled his songs for my favourite, he has written so many! And from so long ago!, so many amazing timeless songs.

Forever young - Sons of Anarchy season 1 episode 12. Cover by the forest rangers. Just fit the scene perfectly.

http://www.soafanatic.com/2015/09/remember-sons-of-anarchy-with-audra-maes-forever-young/

Well done well deserved

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David Libra

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Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:59 am
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I thought Rap News summed up the whole Nobel Prize phenomenon pretty well:

https://youtu.be/7jHe5OjAm_E

Angry Norwegian with sword: "it's our prize, we give it to whoever we want to!"

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think positive Libra

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:02 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Mugwump wrote:
^ On a par with Kissinger's peace prize, the subject of Tom Lehrer's famous aside. I like Dylan's music and songs, but as a poet he has a good ear for folk music.

Still, any prize for literature awarded to Sartre and Dario Fo, but not to Auden and Nabokov and Henry James, was clearly a few pages short of a full chapter, even before this latest outrage.


I'm shocked and disappointed you posted this here. This is a celebration thread and this is not like you xxx

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Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 6:15 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe Mugwump will like it better next year when they gave Ray and Dave Davies the joint-prize in Physics?
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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 6:26 pm
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People born on that day have serious talent. Razz
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David Libra

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Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:47 pm
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think positive wrote:
Mugwump wrote:
^ On a par with Kissinger's peace prize, the subject of Tom Lehrer's famous aside. I like Dylan's music and songs, but as a poet he has a good ear for folk music.

Still, any prize for literature awarded to Sartre and Dario Fo, but not to Auden and Nabokov and Henry James, was clearly a few pages short of a full chapter, even before this latest outrage.


I'm shocked and disappointed you posted this here. This is a celebration thread and this is not like you xxx


Is it? I mean, I love Dylan as much as the next person, but this still seems like an odd decision. The Nobel Prize is so politicised that I think it's fine to argue the case for or against.

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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 10:09 pm
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^ Looked like an opinion thread to me, TP. He's a great and meritorious popular songwriter, and he is probably the greatest and most original popular song lyricist of all time. I'd give him lots of Grammys. But his words, shorn of the music, are those of a bright high-school student. They are often toe-curlingly obvious and lazy. Poetry's a bit better that that.
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think positive Libra

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 10:19 pm
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Yeah my PC was giving me grief, so I've lost the link where a bunch of 'scholars' dissed him getting the award. What a bunch of puffed up poncey Pratts!

Some arguing it's not art? Really? Art is what moves you, and some of his songs can move you to tears. Does something have to be complex, or 'only obvious to those enlightened by the boring classical old fashion language English lit subjects in university's" to get the award? How about the good old, well no women got one arguement?

In that case keep your boring bullshit award. Dylan's songs are classic, timeless, they tell stories. And that SOA reference? Sons of anarchy is a modern day hamlet!

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watt price tully Scorpio



Joined: 15 May 2007


PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 10:54 pm
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Mugwump wrote:
^ On a par with Kissinger's peace prize, the subject of Tom Lehrer's famous aside. I like Dylan's music and songs, but as a poet he has a good ear for folk music.

Still, any prize for literature awarded to Sartre and Dario Fo, but not to Auden and Nabokov and Henry James, was clearly a few pages short of a full chapter, even before this latest outrage.


While I agree it is a bit of a stretch to have awarded Dylan the Nobel Prize for Literature, to suggest it's on par with Kissinger is using a bit of poetic license.

I would have awarded it to Spike Milligan for his poetry.

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David Libra

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 12:10 am
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Bob Dylan's music is definitely art, no question and often great art, at that. What's perplexing is that he sits in what most would consider a fairly distinct genre, in which words are judged less on their own merit than the way they communicate with and are aided by the music. To say it's not literature isn't to place it below the literary canon; it's to put it to the side as something that is separate but equal, roughly speaking.

In any case, Dylan's place in music history is so assured, so incomparable, that this award will not add or subtract an iota from it. So this is really more about the Nobel Prize as an institution than it is about him. Personally, I find most (if not all) of these awards to be capricious and fairly inconsequential, so I feel no sense of ownership over the prize, nor a burning desire to see it go to the right person. If it helps Dylan win a few new fans, then I guess that's a good thing.

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think positive Libra

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 12:13 am
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David wrote:
Bob Dylan's music is definitely art, no question and often great art, at that. What's perplexing is that he sits in what most would consider a fairly distinct genre, in which words are judged less on their own merit than the way they communicate with and are aided by the music. To say it's not literature isn't to place it below the literary canon; it's to put it to the side as something that is separate but equal, roughly speaking.

In any case, Dylan's place in music history is so assured, so incomparable, that this award will not add or subtract an iota from it. So this is really more about the Nobel Prize as an institution than it is about him. Personally, I find most (if not all) of these awards to be capricious and fairly inconsequential, so I feel no sense of ownership over the prize, nor a burning desire to see it go to the right person. If it helps Dylan win a few new fans, then I guess that's a good thing.


Cheers, I like this post well said

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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 2:44 am
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David wrote:
Bob Dylan's music is definitely art, no question and often great art, at that. What's perplexing is that he sits in what most would consider a fairly distinct genre, in which words are judged less on their own merit than the way they communicate with and are aided by the music. To say it's not literature isn't to place it below the literary canon; it's to put it to the side as something that is separate but equal, roughly speaking.

In any case, Dylan's place in music history is so assured, so incomparable, that this award will not add or subtract an iota from it. So this is really more about the Nobel Prize as an institution than it is about him. Personally, I find most (if not all) of these awards to be capricious and fairly inconsequential, so I feel no sense of ownership over the prize, nor a burning desire to see it go to the right person. If it helps Dylan win a few new fans, then I guess that's a good thing.


Indeed, that sums it pretty well, David, but there are implications of giving
Dylan the Nobel for literature.

A culture that thinks Dylan is great literature is a culture that thinks Trump should run for President. It's a culture that has forgotten the importance of standards of craft, discrimination, and expertise. It's a culture that says "if it describes how i feel, or it feels good and it's popular, that's enough". Almost nothing in Dylan reads well as literature. Take the lines quoted by P4s in the OP : it's the type of self-dramatising doggerel that brainy adolescents write across the world. Some of Dylan is better than that, but not much, and a lot of his writing - considered as literature - is worse.

I love Dylan, and I think his achievement is a great achievement. But it is not great literature, and the Nobel used to be part of how we set and maintain that standard.

Finally, it is also a waste. Dylan is already a global megastar and a plutocratically rich man. He does not need people to be turned on to his work, as you suggest. He does not need $1.2 million. There were people on that shortlist who deserved the prize more, and whose writing would have benefited from the financial security it might bring.

This prize is the excretion of a culture that ingests junk food and thinks it is haute cuisine. As folk music, Dylan is haute cuisine. As literature, he is junk food.

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