Lessons from the GF
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WarrenerraW
Joined: 18 Apr 2008
Location: Melbourne
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Over the course of the year, the bulldogs haven't been that successful but always stuck to their guns and believed in themselves and their game plan to be good enough to beat the best when it counted. I often thought that there would be no way the dogs could sustain their manic sling-shot style gameplan for an entire season because it's so taxing, but they did, and that's because of the spirit and belief they have in themselves and each other. Not once did they ever look like giving up.
Sydney on the other hand couldn't match them for pressure and intensity and looked slow and out of sorts for most of the game. Kennedy was their main shining light while buddy (the human coke machine) franklin and tippet - offered nothing. These are big guys on big coin who failed again on the big stage. Swans will face a few challenges now and might need to rebuild.
I think we're on the right page in terms of where we're headed and I hope Bucks can turn things around so that we can become a competitive force once again and win another GF. We need a clean run with injuries and things going our way for a change. It's bound to happen and 2017 may well be the year. We've ditched leading teams which wasn't working and already made some personnel changes with more to come.
Another thing is that yesterday's result shows that anything can happen and finishing top 4 means nothing if you can't pull it together on the day. I'm excited for the future. |
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WarrenerraW
Joined: 18 Apr 2008
Location: Melbourne
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| As for the Norm Smith; Boyd should've won it. He took the big grabs which turned the game and stood up when it counted, while Johannison turned the ball over time and time again especially in the first half. Sure he got a lot of possessions but most of them weren't effective. Picken and Kennedy would've been close seconds. |
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makri 
Joined: 29 Oct 2005
Location: Clifton Hill
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Lesson from the GF??
That we will be pushing sh!t uphill to get Cloke to the Bulldogs. Can't see where he would fit in their reserve side let alone the 1st team.
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Magpietothemax 
magpietothemax
Joined: 28 Apr 2013
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | The main lesson I got from the Dogs win was that there is no set template, game-plan or style for winning a flag. Those who try to emulate others are doomed to be second rate. Each team has its own strengths, its own personnel, it's own skill-sets and character. The key is to harness the best of what you've got and play to your strengths. However, the only other thing I'd add is that in doing that I do believe its essential to have a fully united and committed team, full of team spirit and passion. The Dogs have that in spades. This is the one area of Bucks coaching style which worries me, when I hear him saying he expects the players to be self motivated. To a point he's right. However, the team culture and spirit - as opposed to individual motivation - is the responsibility of the coach to nurture. FWIW, I think Bucks is smart enough to realise that, and getting rid of Leading Teams is a good step towards rebuilding the team spirit we need to march on to victory in 2017. |
This is a very good summary of what I took out of the GF. I also agree with other posters who pointed out the fact that contested footy is absolutely the premium priority, and that is indeed one of our key strengths. Our pressure, at its best, is just as maniacal and desperate as the Western Bulldogs. We need to sustain it over a full year, rather than half a year.
While no particular skill set seems to be essential, an elite skill set profile is required, and I think at this stage we don't yet have that. The WBs play is characterised by maniacal pressure combined with elite ground level skills (tapping on, evasion etc) and scintillating handball through which they clear congestion and then transition wide. Their handball is an amazing team wide skill which forms a key kernel of their play. I think that is where we need to improve: to hone such a skill set, wherever our strengths lie.
Finally, the Bulldogs' victory has demonstrated yet again the crucial importance of psychology in sport. The bonds uniting their team, the amazing relationship of their coach with the players, was clearly the foundation of the magic word that keeps being uttered in the media: "belief". Nathan Buckley's famous comment that he is not there to motivate the players is clearly out of sync with what is required. There is no doubt that Nathan Buckley has the respect of the players, as was seen in the last few rounds of the season where, despite the fact that we could not make finals, we played with manic pressure and desperation. But respect is not enough. It has to be more than respect in today's coaching regime. It has to be utter trust and confidence in the coach, each player has to want to put himself on the line for the coach and for the team. Is Nathan Buckley able to generate the necessary psychological environment? I hope more than ever that the answer can be "yes". |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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| WarrenerraW wrote: | | ANNODAM wrote: | Bevo handed his medal to Murphy, what a dick head!
Sugar-coat it all you like but the medal ain't his, Murphy hasn't played a game since June...
So suffer you ugly mofo, you get the pretend medal, LOL!
That's what I learnt! |
annodam, what a nasty thing to say, you should be ashamed of yourself. I know you hate the bulldogs but do you need to be so juvenile and petulant.
I thought it was a heartwarming gesture and an act of respect and admiration for someone who has stuck with his club through thick and thin and was just as much a part of the win as any of the 22 blokes that took the field.
It also shows how much Bevo values his players. |
I have a strong feeling the League will post out a medal to coach Beveridge anyway, old Fitzpatrick will see to that, you cant have a premiership coach with no medal. Nice gesture for sure, but if you cant take the field due to injury or omission, don't see how you can really get one. Just ask Derek Kickett or Leon Davis ! 
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Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Piesnchess wrote: | | WarrenerraW wrote: | | ANNODAM wrote: | Bevo handed his medal to Murphy, what a dick head!
Sugar-coat it all you like but the medal ain't his, Murphy hasn't played a game since June...
So suffer you ugly mofo, you get the pretend medal, LOL!
That's what I learnt! |
annodam, what a nasty thing to say, you should be ashamed of yourself. I know you hate the bulldogs but do you need to be so juvenile and petulant.
I thought it was a heartwarming gesture and an act of respect and admiration for someone who has stuck with his club through thick and thin and was just as much a part of the win as any of the 22 blokes that took the field.
It also shows how much Bevo values his players. |
I have a strong feeling the League will post out a medal to coach Beveridge anyway, old Fitzpatrick will see to that, you cant have a premiership coach with no medal. Nice gesture for sure, but if you cant take the field due to injury or omission, don't see how you can really get one. Just ask Derek Kickett or Leon Davis ! |
Pretty sure Leon got a premiership medal as he played in the drawn game.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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Personally, I thought the GF was the ugliest GF I have ever seen, just one big tackle and scragg fest, the dogs, scraggers, are very well named. The dogs play with manic pressure and manic frenzy, frenetic, and Beveridge has learnt from his tutor at the Hawks, Clarko, how to push the boundaries and bend the rules as far as a team can go, he has taken the hawks unsociable footy to a whole new level of unsocialbility, hes upped the ante. Despite all their head high tackles and dragging player down by legs etc, they get a dream run from the umpires too, 17-4 free kicks at one stage late in the game, and they lead the comp in frees for. I don't begrudge them the flag, but it was still a very ugly and scraggng game, I love GFs like the 2010 draw, fast and open play, long kicking, skills, high marks, deft passing.
But now the dogs have set the pace, it looks as if all other sides must now adopt that scragging manic game to get to their level, similar to how teams adopted the Eade and Roos Flood thing, some years ago.
The dogs have set the benchmark, and I guess we must follow, I can see season 2017 being one long scragg frest of footy, but that's how it must be I guess.
_________________
Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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piedys
Heeeeeeere's Dyso!!!
Joined: 04 Sep 2003
Location: Resident Forum Psychopath since 2003
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| think positive wrote: | | Outselwooding Selwood. |
Duckwood takes offence to that remark! You will be hearing from his Ducking Lawyers shortly...
| Cam wrote: | All my wives have barracked for the Pies  |
Lol, Cam moves them on like failed draft picks  Next!
| thompsoc wrote: | | My wife once nursed Sam Newman after a knee op |
Should have smothered him with a pillow ala One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest; #missedopportunity.
| think positive wrote: | The man hates football! Don't you get that? He detests it.
$£$%^%%$ hell, not only do I have to defend myself as a 'real' Collingwood supporter, now I'm a bad fricken wife too!
Thank god the dog still loves me! |
No Jo, actually your dog and husband discuss at length all things Footscray related, but only when you leave the house... You know this to be true.
| Pies4shaw wrote: | | Imagine having almost an entire supporter base that doesn't know what it feels like to watch your team die pathetically in a ditch on Grand Final day. |
Never mind; losing pre-lim finals was their birth rite.
This season is simply an anomaly.
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M I L L A N E 4 2 forever |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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| piedys wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | Outselwooding Selwood. |
Duckwood takes offence to that remark! You will be hearing from his Ducking Lawyers shortly...
| Cam wrote: | | All my wives have barracked for the Pies |
Lol, Cam moves them on like failed draft picks Next!
| thompsoc wrote: | | My wife once nursed Sam Newman after a knee op |
Should have smothered him with a pillow ala One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest; #missedopportunity.
| think positive wrote: | The man hates football! Don't you get that? He detests it.
$£$%^%%$ hell, not only do I have to defend myself as a 'real' Collingwood supporter, now I'm a bad fricken wife too!
Thank god the dog still loves me! |
No Jo, actually your dog and husband discuss at length all things Footscray related, but only when you leave the house... You know this to be true.
| Pies4shaw wrote: | | Imagine having almost an entire supporter base that doesn't know what it feels like to watch your team die pathetically in a ditch on Grand Final day. |
Never mind; losing pre-lim finals was their birth rite.
This season is simply an anomaly. |
AND, my friend, theres NO such thing as Back too Back Fairytales.
_________________
Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| Piesnchess wrote: | Personally, I thought the GF was the ugliest GF I have ever seen, just one big tackle and scragg fest, the dogs, scraggers, are very well named. The dogs play with manic pressure and manic frenzy, frenetic, and Beveridge has learnt from his tutor at the Hawks, Clarko, how to push the boundaries and bend the rules as far as a team can go, he has taken the hawks unsociable footy to a whole new level of unsocialbility, hes upped the ante. Despite all their head high tackles and dragging player down by legs etc, they get a dream run from the umpires too, 17-4 free kicks at one stage late in the game, and they lead the comp in frees for. I don't begrudge them the flag, but it was still a very ugly and scraggng game, I love GFs like the 2010 draw, fast and open play, long kicking, skills, high marks, deft passing.
But now the dogs have set the pace, it looks as if all other sides must now adopt that scragging manic game to get to their level, similar to how teams adopted the Eade and Roos Flood thing, some years ago.
The dogs have set the benchmark, and I guess we must follow, I can see season 2017 being one long scragg frest of footy, but that's how it must be I guess. |
It aint necessarily so. They simply play to their strengths. We have to do the same. Any team which tries to copy the Dogs, or any other team's for that matter, style, is destined for mediocrity. |
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Museman
Joined: 06 Jul 2009
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| RudeBoy wrote: | The other lesson from the Grand Final is that we can win the flag in 2017.  |
Yeah because we are going to be favoured like the flogs were...... ffs wake up
Seriously supporting on the day really does turn people blind, there is one reason and one reason only the flogs are premiers today.....
Three not so blind mice who knew exactly what they were doing! |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Piesnchess wrote: | Personally, I thought the GF was the ugliest GF I have ever seen, just one big tackle and scragg fest, the dogs, scraggers, are very well named. The dogs play with manic pressure and manic frenzy, frenetic, and Beveridge has learnt from his tutor at the Hawks, Clarko, how to push the boundaries and bend the rules as far as a team can go, he has taken the hawks unsociable footy to a whole new level of unsocialbility, hes upped the ante. Despite all their head high tackles and dragging player down by legs etc, they get a dream run from the umpires too, 17-4 free kicks at one stage late in the game, and they lead the comp in frees for. I don't begrudge them the flag, but it was still a very ugly and scraggng game, I love GFs like the 2010 draw, fast and open play, long kicking, skills, high marks, deft passing.
But now the dogs have set the pace, it looks as if all other sides must now adopt that scragging manic game to get to their level, similar to how teams adopted the Eade and Roos Flood thing, some years ago.
The dogs have set the benchmark, and I guess we must follow, I can see season 2017 being one long scragg frest of footy, but that's how it must be I guess. |
I guess that just goes to show different people see the same thing differently.
I thought it was a cracking game and pretty well umpired. There were a lot of in close grappling which resembled a game of Rugby (not something I'm a massive fan of) but unlike a few years ago under Roos and Lyon at Freo, the teams were trying to win possession not just cause stoppage after stoppage. The ball inevitably came out the majority of the time and whichever team got it flicked it around fast by hand or banged it on the boot.
I thought it was hard, fast, football with heaps of pressure and intensity from both teams. None of that short dinky kicks, slowly picking your way back, then forward then back again, it was full on attack. Attack with the ball when you have it, attack at the ball and man when you don't or it's in dispute. It's the kind of footy we played this year when we got our shit together.
The things we could use more of is leg speed off half back and out wide. It's going to be a crowded top 8 next year with about 14 teams trying to get in.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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| Museman wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | | The other lesson from the Grand Final is that we can win the flag in 2017. |
Yeah because we are going to be favoured like the flogs were...... ffs wake up
Seriously supporting on the day really does turn people blind, there is one reason and one reason only the flogs are premiers today.....
Three not so blind mice who knew exactly what they were doing! |
Yep 20-8 frees, at one stage 17-4, says it all, wonder if there were any fistful of dollars in brown paper bags found in the umps room post game.
_________________
Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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Magpietothemax
magpietothemax
Joined: 28 Apr 2013
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| Piesnchess wrote: | Personally, I thought the GF was the ugliest GF I have ever seen, just one big tackle and scragg fest, the dogs, scraggers, are very well named. The dogs play with manic pressure and manic frenzy, frenetic, and Beveridge has learnt from his tutor at the Hawks, Clarko, how to push the boundaries and bend the rules as far as a team can go, he has taken the hawks unsociable footy to a whole new level of unsocialbility, hes upped the ante. Despite all their head high tackles and dragging player down by legs etc, they get a dream run from the umpires too, 17-4 free kicks at one stage late in the game, and they lead the comp in frees for. I don't begrudge them the flag, but it was still a very ugly and scraggng game, I love GFs like the 2010 draw, fast and open play, long kicking, skills, high marks, deft passing.
But now the dogs have set the pace, it looks as if all other sides must now adopt that scragging manic game to get to their level, similar to how teams adopted the Eade and Roos Flood thing, some years ago.
The dogs have set the benchmark, and I guess we must follow, I can see season 2017 being one long scragg frest of footy, but that's how it must be I guess. |
the die is cast for us with frenetic pressure on the contested ball. We play that brilliantly. I also think that is a non-negotiable....Hawthorn's disregard for the contested ball has been refuted.
The games we won against top 8 sides (Geelong, GWS, West
Coast) and the near wins (WBs, Hawthorn) were all based on ferocious pressure for the contested ball.
Over the preseason we need to focus on enhancing the skills that predominate in our team.
Also will be interesting how we institute a team defence, as this is also essential for success in the current environment. We did not execute zoning well this year, but zoning in defence combined with mass pressure is the way to maximize team defence because each defender then can be where he needs to be, with the responsiblilty for defending being that of all defenders as a collective - not just each individual defender being accountable only for his opponent. |
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MagpieBat
Joined: 27 Nov 2010
Location: Brooding in a cave... somewhere... maybe...
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| stui magpie wrote: | | Piesnchess wrote: | | WarrenerraW wrote: | | ANNODAM wrote: | Bevo handed his medal to Murphy, what a dick head!
Sugar-coat it all you like but the medal ain't his, Murphy hasn't played a game since June...
So suffer you ugly mofo, you get the pretend medal, LOL!
That's what I learnt! |
annodam, what a nasty thing to say, you should be ashamed of yourself. I know you hate the bulldogs but do you need to be so juvenile and petulant.
I thought it was a heartwarming gesture and an act of respect and admiration for someone who has stuck with his club through thick and thin and was just as much a part of the win as any of the 22 blokes that took the field.
It also shows how much Bevo values his players. |
I have a strong feeling the League will post out a medal to coach Beveridge anyway, old Fitzpatrick will see to that, you cant have a premiership coach with no medal. Nice gesture for sure, but if you cant take the field due to injury or omission, don't see how you can really get one. Just ask Derek Kickett or Leon Davis ! |
Pretty sure Leon got a premiership medal as he played in the drawn game. |
He did.
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I am vengeance. I am the night. I am MagpieBat. |
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