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Mid list revolt

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Visdom 

Success takes planning


Joined: 02 Mar 2008


PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 6:57 pm
Post subject: Mid list revoltReply with quote

I was concerned to speak with a player recently that said he could not produce his best football at Collingwood as he felt mid list players are unable to play to their strengths without feeling threatened. The elite few players are not subject to this constant fear and pressure. I was told that the next level down from the elite were given instructions from their line coach or mentor but Nathan's body language did not mirror the support or reassurance given by their line coach. This resulted in players going into their 'shells' and focusing on a defensive style of play that was more self preserving and less team focused. This is why zoning was so disastrous for us. Players stop reading the play and attacking when we force turnovers. Thus we don't have enough players ahead of the play in transition and can not move the ball effectively. Players are in fear of taking any risk. They don't want to risk their apponent getting the ball if we turn the ball over. We are winning the hard ball and coping the trauma injures without getting quality ball movement opportunities.

Without enough risk we can not slingshot the ball as the modern game requires to break down well strutted team defences. This is why we often looked disorganised early in the season. One on one football helped correct what is fundamentally and head coach communication weakness.

Players must be I courage to exploit their strength and take risks within their capabilities without fear of a PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE BACKLASH.

The Bulldogs have mastered this balance with outstanding communication in a supportive cohesive environment. I have been told that our meetings go on too long and are too complicated and intense.

Nathan is not disimilar to Clarkson. The difference is that Clarko knows his limitations (all coaches have their own limitations) and surrounds himself with coaches and people to fill these limitations. The personnel at Collingwood have a me too approach to coaching and leadership.

We will continue to under perform and get poor performances and player defections from vital mid list players if the football operation department can not address this coaching fundamental.

Member 106775

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robevpau1 Cancer



Joined: 25 Mar 2008


PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:15 pm
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Interestingly with above mention of some player dissent, Pies have just parted ways with Leading Teams.

Collingwood Magpies part ways with Leading Teams ~ Daniel Cherny The Age 27th SEPT

Collingwood's new-look football department has enacted further change, with the club deciding to again part ways with high-performance consultants Leading Teams.
Magpies coach Nathan Buckley will enter a make-or-break final year of his contract without the help of Leading Teams founder Ray McLean, who returned to the club at the end of 2012 - Buckley's first season at the helm - having earlier worked at Collingwood during the reign of former coach Mick Malthouse.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/collingwood-magpies-part-ways-with-leading-teams-20160927-grpmk4.html
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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:21 pm
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^

Cue Rudeboy for some serious celebrating. Razz

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Skids Cancer

Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.


Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175

PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:36 pm
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Bullshit, a good run with injuries and we'll be in the mix 2017.
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MatthewBoydFanClub 



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood

PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:54 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with bits and pieces about Buckley's coaching style that you describe, but totally disagree with your conclusion that we aren't getting any better as a team and won't improve next year. You need to be very careful listening to disgruntled former players. Those players who can't break into the 22 blame the coach for their inability to break into the team, while the ones who get regular spots love their coach. That's human nature. Like every novice coach, Buckley has made mistakes in his first few years and has learned from his mistakes and is getting better all the time. In my view it would be a shame to lose the coach next year if we don't make the finals, but if it happens, that's life and you just move on to the next phase in the development of the club.
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mooretreloar 



Joined: 21 Sep 2016


PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:32 pm
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Another I talked to someone at the club and that must be the view of everyone else at the club post. Happy it could be the view of 1 player, doubtful it will be the view of more than a couple.
Also, I doubt anyone mid list on any list is vital. You indicate we lost players from mid list because of this. I guess you are referring to Seedsman, who struggled to get into Adelaide's best side and Kennedy, who started the year well, but couldn't keep his spot in Melbourne's best side and struggled in the VFL GF. Not very vital for mine.
The mid listers we are projected to lose this year are Marley, we have enough of his type and not close to being vital and Witts, who could develop into a number 1 ruck at a lower side, but we are going to use him to improve our list.
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Cam Capricorn

Nick's BB Member #166


Joined: 10 May 2002
Location: Springvale

PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:46 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Apparently Nathan Brown and Frosty gone as well.
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mooretreloar 



Joined: 21 Sep 2016


PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:01 pm
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Nathan Brown is a good defender on the gorillas, but is no good on anyone that can run. He is too slow and is on tram tracks. Not his fault just copped too many injuries. His disposal and decision making is atrocious. We should jump at the chance of moving him on and anything we get for him is a bonus, as he should be delisted.
Frost, would doubt if we lose Brown that he goes anywhere. I would keep Frost ahead of Brown.
Both depth players.
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inxs88 



Joined: 17 Aug 2014


PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Mid list revoltReply with quote

Visdom wrote:
I was concerned to speak with a player recently that said he could not produce his best football at Collingwood as he felt mid list players are unable to play to their strengths without feeling threatened. The elite few players are not subject to this constant fear and pressure. I was told that the next level down from the elite were given instructions from their line coach or mentor but Nathan's body language did not mirror the support or reassurance given by their line coach. This resulted in players going into their 'shells' and focusing on a defensive style of play that was more self preserving and less team focused. This is why zoning was so disastrous for us. Players stop reading the play and attacking when we force turnovers. Thus we don't have enough players ahead of the play in transition and can not move the ball effectively. Players are in fear of taking any risk. They don't want to risk their apponent getting the ball if we turn the ball over. We are winning the hard ball and coping the trauma injures without getting quality ball movement opportunities.

Without enough risk we can not slingshot the ball as the modern game requires to break down well strutted team defences. This is why we often looked disorganised early in the season. One on one football helped correct what is fundamentally and head coach communication weakness.

Players must be I courage to exploit their strength and take risks within their capabilities without fear of a PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE BACKLASH.

The Bulldogs have mastered this balance with outstanding communication in a supportive cohesive environment. I have been told that our meetings go on too long and are too complicated and intense.

Nathan is not disimilar to Clarkson. The difference is that Clarko knows his limitations (all coaches have their own limitations) and surrounds himself with coaches and people to fill these limitations. The personnel at Collingwood have a me too approach to coaching and leadership.

We will continue to under perform and get poor performances and player defections from vital mid list players if the football operation department can not address this coaching fundamental.

Member 106775


If any of these mid list revolters could stop kicking revoltingly, I may take there views respectfully.

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Krakouer Magic 



Joined: 05 Apr 2011


PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:09 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Leading Teams....✅
Ben Hart....✅
Trevor Hendy....❓
Robert Harvey.....
Nathan Buckley.....

Bravo Collingwood admin. Hate tooting my own horn but that's 2 outta 5 of mine (and plenty other of us sadsacks) recommendations met.


Last edited by Krakouer Magic on Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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GreekLunatic 



Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Location: doncaster vic australia

PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:38 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Gubby has started making changes
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droversdog65 



Joined: 27 Nov 2014


PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:10 pm
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Oh dear! We certainly must not bruise fragile egos here, how could we be so heartless as to expect AFL listed players to fight tooth and nail for their spot in the 22?

PLEASE! These young men are either competitive beasts or shouldn't be in the game. The cream rises to the top and the skim milk is - well - skimmed.

There is no room for uncertainty or lack of total commitment - on and off the field - in today's modern game.

Harden the f*ck up nancy boys and grow a pair - or take up needlepoint.
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Woods Capricorn



Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Location: Melbourne

PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:20 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Pay wall-free link to the Leading Teams story (from the Age's sister site the Brisbane Times): http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/afl/afl-news/collingwood-magpies-part-ways-with-leading-teams-20160927-grpmk4.html

Had to laugh at this..

"The Pies confirmed to Fairfax Media on Tuesday that the club's football department had decided Leading Teams would not have a role at the Holden Centre in 2017, feeling that the time had come to move on from the leadership experts. Other than confirming the split, Leading Teams declined to comment."

Now that's leadership - running scared from the big bad journo.
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Redlight 



Joined: 11 Jun 2009


PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Mid list revoltReply with quote

Visdom wrote:
the next level down from the elite were given instructions from their line coach or mentor but Nathan's body language did not mirror the support or reassurance given by their line coach.


So the line coaches were encouraging and supportive, but Buckley undid all that with his body language?

What was he doing, giving them the finger?
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AndrewT 



Joined: 10 Aug 2016


PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Mid list revoltReply with quote

Visdom wrote:
I was concerned to speak with a player recently that said he could not produce his best football at Collingwood as he felt mid list players are unable to play to their strengths without feeling threatened. The elite few players are not subject to this constant fear and pressure. I was told that the next level down from the elite were given instructions from their line coach or mentor but Nathan's body language did not mirror the support or reassurance given by their line coach. This resulted in players going into their 'shells' and focusing on a defensive style of play that was more self preserving and less team focused. This is why zoning was so disastrous for us. Players stop reading the play and attacking when we force turnovers. Thus we don't have enough players ahead of the play in transition and can not move the ball effectively. Players are in fear of taking any risk. They don't want to risk their apponent getting the ball if we turn the ball over. We are winning the hard ball and coping the trauma injures without getting quality ball movement opportunities.

Without enough risk we can not slingshot the ball as the modern game requires to break down well strutted team defences. This is why we often looked disorganised early in the season. One on one football helped correct what is fundamentally and head coach communication weakness.

Players must be I courage to exploit their strength and take risks within their capabilities without fear of a PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE BACKLASH.

The Bulldogs have mastered this balance with outstanding communication in a supportive cohesive environment. I have been told that our meetings go on too long and are too complicated and intense.

Nathan is not disimilar to Clarkson. The difference is that Clarko knows his limitations (all coaches have their own limitations) and surrounds himself with coaches and people to fill these limitations. The personnel at Collingwood have a me too approach to coaching and leadership.

We will continue to under perform and get poor performances and player defections from vital mid list players if the football operation department can not address this coaching fundamental.

Member 106775


I agree with a fair bit of that. Please don't compare Bucks to Clarkson though, very insulting to a bloke who has coached 4 flags. The difference between them two is Clarkson gets the best out of his list, Bucks can't get the best out of anyone. Speak to more players and they will all say the same thing.
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