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Culprit 
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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I hope we are one of the teams that go in Rudeboy.  |
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
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| If we keep picking mids while giving up Cloke, Witts, Brown and Frost, we aren't going anywhere. |
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piedys 
Heeeeeeere's Dyso!!!
Joined: 04 Sep 2003
Location: Resident Forum Psychopath since 2003
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| mooretreloar wrote: | ... I am sure that we will agree that the aim of football is to win premierships. Since the conclusion of 2011, Geelong has won zero flags, and Collingwood has won zero flags.
Geelong chose from this time onwards to top up their list, rather than strip their list right back and start again. They did move on James Kelly, Matthew Stokes and Stevie J, but have predominantly maintained the elder statesmen of their list. They bought in players like Rhys Stanley and Josh Caddy in past years, but despite this they were declining year on year and fell to 10th in 2015.
At the end of 2015 they cashed in all their chips on Dangerfield, who is a superstar, and three average footballers in Zac Smith, Lachlan Henderson and Scott Selwood. To do this they sacrificed their draft picks in 2015 and a number of picks in the coming 2016 draft. I said at the time that they needed to win the flag in 2016 for this strategy to work, as they have too many older players on their list that were just hanging on. This assertion was also the same for North and Richmond that tried to top up their list and it failed.
History shows that they did not win the flag in 2016. Their ladder position flattered them, as it was widely known that they had the best draw of any team in 2016, including playing Brisbane and Essendon twice. They were found out in the finals. They struggled to beat a Hawthorn side that our D side ran to a point in round 23. Hawthorn then went on to get smashed by the Dogs, showing how bad this formline was. After the Hawks v Cats match I text a number of mates and said whoever plays Geelong in the prelim would smash them. They scoffed at me, but that is exactly what happened. Their 2016 team was a very average one that relied on Dangerfield and Selwood to dominate games and their elder statesmen to have good games to have any chance of winning.
Consequently, going forward they are going to lose these elder statesmen, if not immediately (Enright and Bartel) by the end of next season (Lonergan and Taylor). As shown by their final performances their next wave of players are not good enough and they don't have any early draft picks to replace their elder statesmen and rectify this. Therefore, the only way they are going on the ladder is downwards.
The original poster re Geelong was spot on, that we are 3 years ahead of them, as we have already undertaken our rebuild. Theirs is about to start. I expect us to finish ahead of Geelong in 2017 and if it isn't 2017 we will be well clear of them in 2018. |
mooretreloar, good assessment of where the Cats are realistically at.
Their decline should occur within a season of Hawthorn's demise.
So i'm thinking the rot should really set in if not 2017, then certainly 2018.
The only x-factor players they have are Motlop [who may or may not stay], and Nakia Cockatoo, who if given enough time in the middle, could really blossom. Other than that, time will catch them sooner than later.
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M I L L A N E 4 2 forever |
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mooretreloar
Joined: 21 Sep 2016
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| BucksIsFutureCoach wrote: | | If we keep picking mids while giving up Cloke, Witts, Brown and Frost, we aren't going anywhere. |
This not true BuckIsFutureCoach.
Cloke in my view is done and is not going to make us any better.
Witts has the potential to be a number 1 ruckman, but he is not going to play ahead of Grundy, so we are going to use him to improve our list, rather than let him languish in the 2's. There is no doubt we will get a backup ruckman in the trade/draft period.
Brown is too slow, is on tram tracks (can't twist and turn) and his disposal and decision making is putrid. Trade or delist for mine. If he stays he is just a back up player and will be playing VFL most of the year like Toovey and Macaffer did this year.
Frost - won't be going anywhere if Brown goes.
Thanks for the feedback guys. Agree that Hawthorn is also on their way down. They were extremely lucky to make finals in 2016 with all their close wins. Also, agree both Geelong and Hawthorn were lucky to play each other, otherwise both would have been out in straight sets.
Re Motlop - too much evidence now that he does not perform in big games.
Re Cockatoo - could be anything, very surprised that he was not part of their finals teams, as he will improve, whilst a lot of their players will not. Poor selection decision for mine. |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| AndrewT wrote: | Im off kids.. You won't hear from me again. I've said what I've needed to with not much luck. Everything I've said is a fact! Don't bother replying to this because I won't be responding. Go pies!
I'll Private message you Soon Cam |
Door, Arse, Way out.
Fill in the blanks and make a sentence.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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ronrat
Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: Thailand
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| stui magpie wrote: | | AndrewT wrote: | Im off kids.. You won't hear from me again. I've said what I've needed to with not much luck. Everything I've said is a fact! Don't bother replying to this because I won't be responding. Go pies!
I'll Private message you Soon Cam |
Door, Arse, Way out.
Fill in the blanks and make a sentence. |
make 3
toys throw pram
spit dummy
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Annoying opposition supporters since 1967. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| piedys wrote: | | mooretreloar wrote: | ... I am sure that we will agree that the aim of football is to win premierships. Since the conclusion of 2011, Geelong has won zero flags, and Collingwood has won zero flags.
Geelong chose from this time onwards to top up their list, rather than strip their list right back and start again. They did move on James Kelly, Matthew Stokes and Stevie J, but have predominantly maintained the elder statesmen of their list. They bought in players like Rhys Stanley and Josh Caddy in past years, but despite this they were declining year on year and fell to 10th in 2015.
At the end of 2015 they cashed in all their chips on Dangerfield, who is a superstar, and three average footballers in Zac Smith, Lachlan Henderson and Scott Selwood. To do this they sacrificed their draft picks in 2015 and a number of picks in the coming 2016 draft. I said at the time that they needed to win the flag in 2016 for this strategy to work, as they have too many older players on their list that were just hanging on. This assertion was also the same for North and Richmond that tried to top up their list and it failed.
History shows that they did not win the flag in 2016. Their ladder position flattered them, as it was widely known that they had the best draw of any team in 2016, including playing Brisbane and Essendon twice. They were found out in the finals. They struggled to beat a Hawthorn side that our D side ran to a point in round 23. Hawthorn then went on to get smashed by the Dogs, showing how bad this formline was. After the Hawks v Cats match I text a number of mates and said whoever plays Geelong in the prelim would smash them. They scoffed at me, but that is exactly what happened. Their 2016 team was a very average one that relied on Dangerfield and Selwood to dominate games and their elder statesmen to have good games to have any chance of winning.
Consequently, going forward they are going to lose these elder statesmen, if not immediately (Enright and Bartel) by the end of next season (Lonergan and Taylor). As shown by their final performances their next wave of players are not good enough and they don't have any early draft picks to replace their elder statesmen and rectify this. Therefore, the only way they are going on the ladder is downwards.
The original poster re Geelong was spot on, that we are 3 years ahead of them, as we have already undertaken our rebuild. Theirs is about to start. I expect us to finish ahead of Geelong in 2017 and if it isn't 2017 we will be well clear of them in 2018. |
mooretreloar, good assessment of where the Cats are realistically at.
Their decline should occur within a season of Hawthorn's demise.
So i'm thinking the rot should really set in if not 2017, then certainly 2018.
The only x-factor players they have are Motlop [who may or may not stay], and Nakia Cockatoo, who if given enough time in the middle, could really blossom. Other than that, time will catch them sooner than later. |
Hawthorn is on a similar trajectory, but as a destination club it may be a bit slower.
They seriously rely on their core of Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis, Burgoyne and Gibson. They're all ageing and O'Meara, Mitchell and Vickery aren't going to fix that.
Clarko may reinvent the team yet again but the Dogs and QWS are setting the new template and we're on the same page. Manic intensity won us a flag in 2010 with a team full of ruck rovers, the days of playing stoppage football seem over for now. The next few years will be about constant movement, fast movement, run and carry and manic intensity at the contest. We're on the page, Hawks and Cats aren't.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Visdom
Success takes planning
Joined: 02 Mar 2008
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| Post subject: Re: Mid list revolt | |
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| Redlight wrote: | | Visdom wrote: | | the next level down from the elite were given instructions from their line coach or mentor but Nathan's body language did not mirror the support or reassurance given by their line coach. |
So the line coaches were encouraging and supportive, but Buckley undid all that with his body language?
What was he doing, giving them the finger? |
I understand he ignored players that had not performed and did not acknowledge them for days or weeks. This created a culture of fear that some players responded to but most did not.
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Relentless aggression! |
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mudlark
Joined: 19 Mar 2002
Location: Maroochydore Qld
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| AndrewT wrote: | Im off kids.. You won't hear from me again. I've said what I've needed to with not much luck. Everything I've said is a fact! Don't bother replying to this because I won't be responding. Go pies!
I'll Private message you Soon Cam |
Picked you as a troll from day 1.Back to where you belong.  |
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Collingwood Crackerjack
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
Location: Canberra
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| mooretreloar wrote: | | Collingwood Crackerjack wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | AndrewT wrote: | | mooretreloar wrote: | | AndrewT wrote: | | mooretreloar wrote: | | AndrewT wrote: | | mooretreloar wrote: | | courtza wrote: | | You make some pretty big statements AndrewT, would you put your name to them. |
Courtza, you know when you get together with a group of mates and they bring along some of their mates and there is sometimes a guy in that group that is a loudmouth who believes his opinion trumps all. AndrewT is that guy of Nicks. He has his opinion and no matter what anyone posts to counter his arguments, he will always be right. |
Mooretreloar, you must be mates with Bucks.. That means your either Perty, Robert Harvey, Sando or Tanya, hi Tanya if its you.
The facts are Bucks has destroyed the list and the club. Even staff are miserable there, players feel they cant be there own Men. Mick was the best because he made C graders feel like they were C+ or B graders and B graders feel B+ or A graders. Most players went backwards this year, and before you start banging on about Pendles, steely and Trealoar dont because them boys would play like they do if our cleaner was coach. A good coach gets the best out of the bottom half of the list, if Bucks could do that we make finals the last 4 years. So come on Mooretrealor give us some more garbage excuses. |
Not going to argue with you AndrewT, as I said it is pointless as you will always be right. |
Finally got something right.. well done mate |
Right in your own mind, but not even close to right in reality, but as I said it is pointless to provide counter arguments, as you won't consider them. |
You just give excuses, nothing more. Down hill every year , you can't argue with that. |
Ahmmmm 2015 - 12th, 2016 - 12th
I'm happy to argue that that doesn't constitute a decline. |
Whilst a logically valid argument against the '5 straight years of decline'line, it must feel fairly shabby to pull out that argument.....I was actually wondering which poster would finally do it, you're the first so far as I know |
No logic to this argument CollingwoodCrackerjack. Suggest that you read the thread I started titled Collingwood since and including 2010, which provides a counter to this argument. |
Gotta disagree with you there; I'm no scientician, but i'm pretty sure 12 = 12..... doesn't it?
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"The last thing he expected WAS THE FIRST THING HE GOT!!!!!"
© Collingwood Crackerjack, 1992 |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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| mudlark wrote: | | AndrewT wrote: | Im off kids.. You won't hear from me again. I've said what I've needed to with not much luck. Everything I've said is a fact! Don't bother replying to this because I won't be responding. Go pies!
I'll Private message you Soon Cam |
Picked you as a troll from day 1.Back to where you belong. |
Fear not, Jez07 will be back on deck, hes had four guises including this one, by my reckoning, ya cant keep a good troll down. 
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Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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Cam 
Nick's BB Member #166
Joined: 10 May 2002
Location: Springvale
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I don't think he's a troll, more like one of the billy goats. Sometimes you guys just need to listen to what people say without judgement.
Yeah i know, this is the internet.
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Get back on top. |
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Collingwood Crackerjack
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
Location: Canberra
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| jackcass wrote: | | Collingwood Crackerjack wrote: | | Whilst a logically valid argument against the '5 straight years of decline'line, it must feel fairly shabby to pull out that argument.....I was actually wondering which poster would finally do it, you're the first so far as I know |
Not the least bit shabby. When a <snip, can we try make our points and arguments without this kind of talk, please? - bbmods> habitually disses other posters and the club I love and espouses his opinions as facts I'm more than happy to show him the error of his ways. He's the one that should feel shabby.
I for 1 don't even think 12th this year is an accurate reflection of where we should have been. A bit of luck and we could easily have beaten the Dawks, a bit of luck on the injury front and I think we would have beaten the Doggies at the G. That could easily have had us sitting in 9th or 10th and provided a more accurate reflection on our improvement this year over last. |
I disagree...2 years at 12 is a shameful fact, and shouldn't be used as a counter argument...in my opinion that is
_________________
"The last thing he expected WAS THE FIRST THING HE GOT!!!!!"
© Collingwood Crackerjack, 1992 |
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Collingwood Crackerjack
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
Location: Canberra
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| think positive wrote: | | Collingwood Crackerjack wrote: | | Krakouer Magic wrote: | | mooretreloar wrote: | | By the way Mick was a sensational man manager, but one of the worst game day coaches I have seen in my time of watching footy. Hence, why he only won 3 flags in 31 years of coaching. Not even a 10% flag winning record, so stop living in the past and get behind your club and your coach. |
Mick was one of the best game day coaches hence why he polished a turd in 02 and 03. The 02 Qualifying Final was one of the greatest coached games in our history.
Of all the stuff written on here this has to be in a world all on its own. If Mick is one of the worst, then Bucks must hands down be the worst game day coach ever.
Less than 3:30 on the clock vs StK (2010 GF1) and vs Haw (2011 PF) and Mick floods the backline. Pretty good game day coaching I would of thought.
Tell me again how Nathan approached the last 2:30 in round 23?
One of Mick's strengths was his game day coaching. I guess Sheedy was a dud too then. Only got 4 flags in his career and did nothing with GWS. |
Oh my word, are we back onto this again? I'm not a Buckley fan, but you need to let that game go |
No it's a classic example of shit coaching. Your in front, 45 sec to go, you don't worry about scoring you stop the opposing team scoring. What better way to finish the season from hell off than to beat the reigning premier in a gutsy battle. Instead we let them win. Unforgivable. |
As I say, i'm no Buckley fanboy, but its just seems like a strange straw to break the camels back is all, so to speak...I mean it took a 65 metre bomb from a spud ruckman to beat us, its hardly Buckleys worse crime of this year is it?
_________________
"The last thing he expected WAS THE FIRST THING HE GOT!!!!!"
© Collingwood Crackerjack, 1992 |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| piedys wrote: | | mooretreloar wrote: | ... I am sure that we will agree that the aim of football is to win premierships. Since the conclusion of 2011, Geelong has won zero flags, and Collingwood has won zero flags.
Geelong chose from this time onwards to top up their list, rather than strip their list right back and start again. They did move on James Kelly, Matthew Stokes and Stevie J, but have predominantly maintained the elder statesmen of their list. They bought in players like Rhys Stanley and Josh Caddy in past years, but despite this they were declining year on year and fell to 10th in 2015.
At the end of 2015 they cashed in all their chips on Dangerfield, who is a superstar, and three average footballers in Zac Smith, Lachlan Henderson and Scott Selwood. To do this they sacrificed their draft picks in 2015 and a number of picks in the coming 2016 draft. I said at the time that they needed to win the flag in 2016 for this strategy to work, as they have too many older players on their list that were just hanging on. This assertion was also the same for North and Richmond that tried to top up their list and it failed.
History shows that they did not win the flag in 2016. Their ladder position flattered them, as it was widely known that they had the best draw of any team in 2016, including playing Brisbane and Essendon twice. They were found out in the finals. They struggled to beat a Hawthorn side that our D side ran to a point in round 23. Hawthorn then went on to get smashed by the Dogs, showing how bad this formline was. After the Hawks v Cats match I text a number of mates and said whoever plays Geelong in the prelim would smash them. They scoffed at me, but that is exactly what happened. Their 2016 team was a very average one that relied on Dangerfield and Selwood to dominate games and their elder statesmen to have good games to have any chance of winning.
Consequently, going forward they are going to lose these elder statesmen, if not immediately (Enright and Bartel) by the end of next season (Lonergan and Taylor). As shown by their final performances their next wave of players are not good enough and they don't have any early draft picks to replace their elder statesmen and rectify this. Therefore, the only way they are going on the ladder is downwards.
The original poster re Geelong was spot on, that we are 3 years ahead of them, as we have already undertaken our rebuild. Theirs is about to start. I expect us to finish ahead of Geelong in 2017 and if it isn't 2017 we will be well clear of them in 2018. |
mooretreloar, good assessment of where the Cats are realistically at.
Their decline should occur within a season of Hawthorn's demise.
So i'm thinking the rot should really set in if not 2017, then certainly 2018.
The only x-factor players they have are Motlop [who may or may not stay], and Nakia Cockatoo, who if given enough time in the middle, could really blossom. Other than that, time will catch them sooner than later. |
It is interesting, though, that we thought they were on their last legs 6 years ago when Collingwood flogged them in the prelim and Ablett ran away - in fact, despite apparently teetering on the precipice at that time, they've played in the finals most years since then. |
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