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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Post subject: Mother Theresa is now a saint. |  |
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Thoughts?
There seems to be two fairly totally opposed points of view. Other than the fact that i don't give a rats about the Catholic church, I don't have one. So I'm seeking others.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Morrigu 
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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Unless you are going to take it seriously be quite - memo to self!
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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
Last edited by Morrigu on Mon Sep 05, 2016 11:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Let's kick things off with a Christopher Hitchens polemic:
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2003/10/mommie_dearest.html
| Quote: | | This returns us to the medieval corruption of the church, which sold indulgences to the rich while preaching hellfire and continence to the poor. MT was not a friend of the poor. She was a friend of poverty. She said that suffering was a gift from God. She spent her life opposing the only known cure for poverty, which is the empowerment of women and the emancipation of them from a livestock version of compulsory reproduction. And she was a friend to the worst of the rich, taking misappropriated money from the atrocious Duvalier family in Haiti (whose rule she praised in return) and from Charles Keating of the Lincoln Savings and Loan. Where did that money, and all the other donations, go? The primitive hospice in Calcutta was as run down when she died as it always had beenshe preferred California clinics when she got sick herselfand her order always refused to publish any audit. But we have her own claim that she opened 500 convents in more than a hundred countries, all bearing the name of her own order. Excuse me, but this is modesty and humility? |
Aside from the pure joy of Hitchens murdering sacred cows, I find things to agree with and disagree with here. But firstly, let's get something out of the way: sainthood is a ridiculous, mediaeval idea that asks us to believe that certain individuals can be 'good' in some pure, holy way that's inaccessible to the rest of us (to the extent of literally working miracles!); and it's also a form of recognition that really has no relevance to anybody outside the Catholic Church. So the idea that those of us who aren't Catholic should have an opinion on a) whether she was a sufficiently 'good' person to receive a sainthood, or b) whether any given person should receive a sainthood, is actually kind of ridiculous.
That's not to say we can't discuss her broader legacy, and on that note I find more to agree with Hitchens on. Certainly, she seems to have been a force for extreme conservatism and, in that sense, contributed to a decent amount of misery in the world. But I hesitate a little when Hitchens condemns her for encouraging people to embrace poverty, because I think there are two sides to this. Yes, encouraging impoverished people to accept their lot in life and not hope for better in life is, in its own way, a barrier to social progress. But I'm not enough of a militant atheist that I can't see that religion can be a deep source of comfort to people in terrible conditions. After all, what's the point of health, functional society, equality, a decent wage, and so on, if not to make people happier? And if religion can act as a shortcut for that, in certain cases, isn't that a good thing?
I think it's a truism that people are complex, and can achieve both good and bad over the course of their life. I don't think the love and adoration some people felt for Mother Theresa had absolutely no basis. It's possible that, for many people, she really did improve their lives in some ways. But I also think that her (many) flaws just show how ridiculous the idea of sainthood is. She was just a human being at the end of the day.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
Fence sitter.  
But good post. I agree with you about sainthood as a notion and also the idea that no one is all good or all bad.
Next.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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I find it strange that Poppy's are used for servicemen tributes,
Everyone knows what poppies are for in Australia!
She's Dead. Obviously quite a few people think she did good in the world. Why do non religious people debate such things? Obviously it means nothing to them!
But after reading this thread, the Mother Teresa comments/comparisons just won't be the same! As in "is nothing sacred!'
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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What are poppies for in Australia?
And being non religious, I do question when a religion tries to deify some individual. As David said, she did good and she did bad. Some think she was a saint, some think she was a biatch and did more harm than good.
Just curious as to what people think.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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I don't care though, just an observation!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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luvdids 
Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Location: work
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| stui magpie wrote: | What are poppies for in Australia?
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And where did poppies come up? |
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Culprit 
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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| Where would the world be without the gullible? |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
With no market for bottled water for one.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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Well, it was smarter than making Prince Phillip a knight.
(Not much smarter, I admit.)
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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Dave The Man 
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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My Thoughts.
What Utter Crap
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I am Da Man |
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