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Mountains Magpie
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Somewhere between now and then
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| eddiesmith wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | A bit of perspective guys.
Cloke plays his best game of the year and kicks 2 goals.
Riewoldt plays his best game and kicks 9 goals.
I hope Travis does well wherever he goes, but I am looking forward to having forwards who are reliable goal kickers. |
Ha yeah, you can compare the two games! We play a top four team, and but for their extra players we would have won, they were playing the lions! Hell I could kick 9 against them- in heels! |
If Cloke had kicked accurately from 25 metres in front of goal, we'd have won. Crocker kicked more goals than Cloke. |
If the great Darcy Moore could kick accurately from 15 metres in front of goal, we'd have beaten he Bulldogs
But hey we all ignore that because only Cloke misses sitters  |
Whilst this is true, one has been doing it for 5 minutes, the other for a decade.
Makes for a well filled frustration sandwich.
MM
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Spiral progress, unstoppable,
exhausted sources replaced by perversion |
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melliot
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Location: Bendigo
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| jackcass wrote: | | melliot wrote: | Can someone answer my earlier question.
Can we release Cloke from his contract and get a better Draft pick through FA compensation? |
Not that I'm aware. Contract is lodged with the AFL and remains binding unless superseded. |
Didnt the saints/north do that with DalSanto? |
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
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| jackcass wrote: | | Seth wrote: | Bye Trav, shut the door on the way out.
From all reports has spoken to three coaches already. Instead of working on his game, working on his kicking, he sooks it up some time ago. Good riddance. Better to get something then nothing next year when he leaves anyway.
Sorry but Trav has broken my heart with his goal kicking for way too long. Paid big big money to to take marks and kick goals and he wasnt doing it so off ya go! |
We'd actually get a FA compo pick if he left at the end of 2017. |
The irony is if he was still on $800,000 next year, we would get a first rounder FA compo pick next year, whereas on the purported $400,000 next year, that would only net us a second rounder FA compo pick. Shows the absurdity of the AFL rules. |
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Deja Vu
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
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There is no guarantee that we'd get a compo pick if Cloke left as a FA at the end of next year. We probably would get nothing.
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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At the end of the day,we all KNOW just WHO pulls the strings on Clokes career and manipulates him, his old man Demir Cloke, the most involved nightmare footy parent in League history. HE alone decides Travis direction, you can take that one too the bank.
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Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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qldmagpie67
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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| Piesnchess wrote: | | At the end of the day,we all KNOW just WHO pulls the strings on Clokes career and manipulates him, his old man Demir Cloke, the most involved nightmare footy parent in League history. HE alone decides Travis direction, you can take that one too the bank. |
110% PNC Demir said earlier this year when it was revealed travis wasn't going to trigger the extra dollars in the 5th year of his deal the club should negotiate his deal again and extend and forget about th KPI's he missed which weren't goal related Demir said at the time it should be a show of faith to his son the club honoured the whole amount of his contract regardless of not achieving some mutually agreed targets. And one wonders why travis feels he's hard done by with Demir whining in his ear all season about it |
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Member 7167 
"What Good Fortune For Governments That The People Do Not Think" - Adolf Hitler.
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Location: The Collibran Hideout
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| jackcass wrote: | | watt price tully wrote: | | MagpieBat wrote: | | Krakouer Magic wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | Member 7167 wrote: | I don't think that Cloke had too many options in staying due to the way he was treated. It is one thing relegate a young player into the VFL to hone their skills. This was never the case with Cloke and it was more an issue in respect to his confidence. As a senior player he should have been given more respect and assistance in overcoming his issues in the AFL team.
He is now faced with serving out the remaining year of his contract playing at VFL level. That is simply insulting to a man of his stature and totally unacceptable.
I see this as a real failure of the club. If you cannot find a reasonable role for a guy who was the best contested mark in the competition something is wrong. When coaching or managing people you need to play to their strengths and be imaginative and not simply work to a preordained rigorous structure and force round people into square holes. I suspect that this is Buckley greatest flaw as a coach.
It was obvious from his actions and efforts against the Hawks that he still loves the club and respects the colours and the supporters. Very sad to see him planning on moving on. |
100% this |
Ditto |
And me. |
Far too much metooism going on around here.
But me too!  |
Meh, while I'll be sad to see him go, believe he's been a great servant, I'm not prepared to assume 1 side is any more right or wrong than the other in a situation I have no knowledge off other than internet speculation.
I'd also be interested to know how many of those posters taking issue with the club on this were actually among the loudest over the last few years complaining about Cloke and suggesting he be offloaded. Not pointing fingers, just curious. |
I have certainly been frustrated by Cloke at times especially when at a game and watching our opportunities amount to nothing and the opposition that have been dominated in all things but the score board start gaining momentum.
That said I have always wanted to see Cloke retained and even to this day I believe that in the right hands, with the right guidance and support he can turn it around.
It will be interesting on seeing how he goes over the next couple of years at another club.
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Now Retired - Every Day Is A Saturday |
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Cam 
Nick's BB Member #166
Joined: 10 May 2002
Location: Springvale
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| qldmagpie67 wrote: | | Piesnchess wrote: | | At the end of the day,we all KNOW just WHO pulls the strings on Clokes career and manipulates him, his old man Demir Cloke, the most involved nightmare footy parent in League history. HE alone decides Travis direction, you can take that one too the bank. |
110% PNC Demir said earlier this year when it was revealed travis wasn't going to trigger the extra dollars in the 5th year of his deal the club should negotiate his deal again and extend and forget about th KPI's he missed which weren't goal related Demir said at the time it should be a show of faith to his son the club honoured the whole amount of his contract regardless of not achieving some mutually agreed targets. And one wonders why travis feels he's hard done by with Demir whining in his ear all season about it |
It was probably plan A in the Cloke camp anyway. Agree at the time to the 5 then see how things went to renegotiate. Understandable. However if the relationship was truly broken, say like how Bomber Thompsons were in his time in Geelong where he didn't speak to players offside with him, then it doesn't explain Bux trying to help him during VFL games and playing him in the ones when he could well have left him in the twos to rot.
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Get back on top.
Last edited by Cam on Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| In any case, One what? |
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jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| melliot wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | melliot wrote: | Can someone answer my earlier question.
Can we release Cloke from his contract and get a better Draft pick through FA compensation? |
Not that I'm aware. Contract is lodged with the AFL and remains binding unless superseded. |
Didnt the saints/north do that with DalSanto? |
Not sure. Think the Del Santo situation was a bit different as he wasn't actually contracted for 2014 but had a trigger clause that he could have exercised if he'd wanted to. |
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Geek
geek
Joined: 06 Apr 2006
Location: Jacana
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| melliot wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | melliot wrote: | Can someone answer my earlier question.
Can we release Cloke from his contract and get a better Draft pick through FA compensation? |
Not that I'm aware. Contract is lodged with the AFL and remains binding unless superseded. |
Didnt the saints/north do that with DalSanto? |
You don't get compensation for delisted free agents. "Renegotiating the contract" is essentially delisting so no, we wouldn't get compensation.
Having said that, we would do better to do a trade in good faith anyway. There are a couple of clubs that are shit to deal with but the rest should be ok.
Sad to se the big lug go but we really should have done it 2 years ago when 2m Peter was available. We could have gotten 2 first rounders for him then including a top 5 pick for an eventual draft haul of JDG, Moore, Wright and another first rounder. With Greenwood, Maynard and Crisp coming in that year that would have made for 1/3 of a best 22 for the loss of Beams and Cloke, neither of whom have set the world alight since.
And yes, I said we should have done it back then too.
I'm all up for sentimentality in footy And I appreciate the effort that Cloke put in to his footy. He would have had to have been more committed to his footy than I have been to anything in my life other than my kid and I totally respect that.
But sentimentality does not win you flags. Whenever possible, we need to look at moving on those in decline for those on the rise. It's ruthless and maybe appears a little cold hearted at times but that's AFL footy now. All the way across the league, players are treating footy as "just a business" and the clubs that don't do likewise will be at a loss.
On Cloke's sentimental value due to the flag, well he spent a lot of his political capital with us AFAIC when he and his dad held us over a barrel with his last contract. The club's debt to him was paid then. 800k for 4 years with a 5th on performance.... for a guy who was great at getting it but was a turnover merchant. Every behind, every out on the full, every shot across the face that would get killed by the defence was a turnover. 800kpa should pay for more than that. Face it.... Cloke is NQR. Great mark. One of the best in history. Good tank. OK wheels for a person with his size. Great tackler when he puts in the effort. Durable as all hell, suggesting a great example to the younger players of proper preparation and hard yards on the track. Kicks like he's got polio though. 800k for an NQR? The club has repaid its debt to him.
Now he's trying to do a Malthouse on the part of the contract that he doesn't like. Fair enough. That's the done thing these days it seems and in my view, he's got the right to shop around and maybe get him and his dad some more coin. We get the chance maybe to recycle some value out of his list position. His fans don't have to watch him decline even further every week over the next couple of years, tut-tutting about how sad it is to see a one-time champion struggling through the end of his career. Win-win-win.
He wasn't treated badly this year. He was given longer than anyone should have been to find form in the firsts. He did ok when he got back in on a couple of occasions, suggesting that he has some good footy left in him. For a team ready to challenge, he could be the final piece of the puzzle. If we can get something in the first or early second round, we would be stupid not to take it. |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| ^^ well said, and I'm one who has defended him over the journey. |
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skaman 
One step beyond.......
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Townsville via Melbourne
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| Geek wrote: | | melliot wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | melliot wrote: | Can someone answer my earlier question.
Can we release Cloke from his contract and get a better Draft pick through FA compensation? |
Not that I'm aware. Contract is lodged with the AFL and remains binding unless superseded. |
Didnt the saints/north do that with DalSanto? |
You don't get compensation for delisted free agents. "Renegotiating the contract" is essentially delisting so no, we wouldn't get compensation.
Having said that, we would do better to do a trade in good faith anyway. There are a couple of clubs that are shit to deal with but the rest should be ok.
Sad to se the big lug go but we really should have done it 2 years ago when 2m Peter was available. We could have gotten 2 first rounders for him then including a top 5 pick for an eventual draft haul of JDG, Moore, Wright and another first rounder. With Greenwood, Maynard and Crisp coming in that year that would have made for 1/3 of a best 22 for the loss of Beams and Cloke, neither of whom have set the world alight since.
And yes, I said we should have done it back then too.
I'm all up for sentimentality in footy And I appreciate the effort that Cloke put in to his footy. He would have had to have been more committed to his footy than I have been to anything in my life other than my kid and I totally respect that.
But sentimentality does not win you flags. Whenever possible, we need to look at moving on those in decline for those on the rise. It's ruthless and maybe appears a little cold hearted at times but that's AFL footy now. All the way across the league, players are treating footy as "just a business" and the clubs that don't do likewise will be at a loss.
On Cloke's sentimental value due to the flag, well he spent a lot of his political capital with us AFAIC when he and his dad held us over a barrel with his last contract. The club's debt to him was paid then. 800k for 4 years with a 5th on performance.... for a guy who was great at getting it but was a turnover merchant. Every behind, every out on the full, every shot across the face that would get killed by the defence was a turnover. 800kpa should pay for more than that. Face it.... Cloke is NQR. Great mark. One of the best in history. Good tank. OK wheels for a person with his size. Great tackler when he puts in the effort. Durable as all hell, suggesting a great example to the younger players of proper preparation and hard yards on the track. Kicks like he's got polio though. 800k for an NQR? The club has repaid its debt to him.
Now he's trying to do a Malthouse on the part of the contract that he doesn't like. Fair enough. That's the done thing these days it seems and in my view, he's got the right to shop around and maybe get him and his dad some more coin. We get the chance maybe to recycle some value out of his list position. His fans don't have to watch him decline even further every week over the next couple of years, tut-tutting about how sad it is to see a one-time champion struggling through the end of his career. Win-win-win.
He wasn't treated badly this year. He was given longer than anyone should have been to find form in the firsts. He did ok when he got back in on a couple of occasions, suggesting that he has some good footy left in him. For a team ready to challenge, he could be the final piece of the puzzle. If we can get something in the first or early second round, we would be stupid not to take it. |
Well said. Sums it up to me perfectly. See ya big fella. lets hope its a win/win situation. Always welcome back as a Pie when its time to retire.
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Enjoy yourself. Its later than you think! |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| Deja Vu wrote: | | There is no guarantee that we'd get a compo pick if Cloke left as a FA at the end of next year. We probably would get nothing. |
He'd have to be signing on at his new club for a lot less than he'd get at the Pies, or go to a club with a lot of higher paid players, to fall below the FA compo threshold unless I'm mistaken. |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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Just so long as we dont do a direct swap for him for that utter spud Vickery, that would be the living end.
_________________
Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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