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jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| watt price tully wrote: | | MagpieBat wrote: | | Krakouer Magic wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | Member 7167 wrote: | I don't think that Cloke had too many options in staying due to the way he was treated. It is one thing relegate a young player into the VFL to hone their skills. This was never the case with Cloke and it was more an issue in respect to his confidence. As a senior player he should have been given more respect and assistance in overcoming his issues in the AFL team.
He is now faced with serving out the remaining year of his contract playing at VFL level. That is simply insulting to a man of his stature and totally unacceptable.
I see this as a real failure of the club. If you cannot find a reasonable role for a guy who was the best contested mark in the competition something is wrong. When coaching or managing people you need to play to their strengths and be imaginative and not simply work to a preordained rigorous structure and force round people into square holes. I suspect that this is Buckley greatest flaw as a coach.
It was obvious from his actions and efforts against the Hawks that he still loves the club and respects the colours and the supporters. Very sad to see him planning on moving on. |
100% this |
Ditto |
And me. |
Far too much metooism going on around here.
But me too!  |
Meh, while I'll be sad to see him go, believe he's been a great servant, I'm not prepared to assume 1 side is any more right or wrong than the other in a situation I have no knowledge off other than internet speculation.
I'd also be interested to know how many of those posters taking issue with the club on this were actually among the loudest over the last few years complaining about Cloke and suggesting he be offloaded. Not pointing fingers, just curious.
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| kymbo5@yahoo.com.au wrote: | | Seth wrote: | Bye Trav, shut the door on the way out.
From all reports has spoken to three coaches already. Instead of working on his game, working on his kicking, he sooks it up some time ago. Good riddance. Better to get something then nothing next year when he leaves anyway.
Sorry but Trav has broken my heart with his goal kicking for way too long. Paid big big money to to take marks and kick goals and he wasnt doing it so off ya go! |
That sounds like emotion talking to me. It's a harsh view.
What I have seen is restraint and class from Travis in the way he has handled this difficult year. I've seen no sooking, on or off the field which, the way he is treated by the umpires is amazing.
I would like to see him stay but am realistic to the fact that is unlikely.
Please don't berate him, he has been a champion for this club and given us more enjoyment than the average player by a mile (despite many frustrating moments admittedly).
Wherever he is next year (with the exception of Whorethorn), I wish him the best and say a genuine thanks to him. |
Well said.
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Redlight
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
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| Krakouer Magic wrote: | | Redlight wrote: | | Krakouer Magic wrote: | | thompsoc wrote: | | Clifton Hill-Billy wrote: | | Hated the mercenary way he and his father held the club to ransom in 2011, back when he was playing well, the club should apply the same self interest and unless the price is right then he can sit out 2017 or languish in the VFL. |
400 grand for sitting in the VFL might sound good to him. |
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/travis-cloke-officially-requests-trade-away-from-collingwood-magpies-20160830-gr4eug.html
"Cloke has a season to run on his five-year contract although, as he has failed to meet clauses, his salary next year is expected to be slashed from about $800,000 to $400,000."
I wonder if one of those "clauses" would have been to play all 22 games? Or even say bonus' for 14, 16, 18, 20 and 22 games.
So let me get this right.
Cloke got pummelled by 2 and 3 defenders every contest for 5 years because his coaches forward structure was an abomination. The reward Cloke gets when the coaches completely botch the start to the year is to scapegoat him and drop him for Anzac Day.
Then they drop him a further two times during the year even when he is a better option than White or anyone else. This stops him from ever achieving half his potential wage for the year?
That's a an absolute dog act anyway you look at it. |
Hang on.
You 'wonder' if one of the clauses was missed games, then immediately determine that it was (based on, well, nothing really). Then, on the basis of that leap of imagination, you declare the club guilty of a 'dog act'.
OK then. |
Haha you don't think he'd get a bonus for games played? Pretty standard in most football contracts I would have thought. Probably clauses for contested marks and goals kicked too. And you can't take contested marks or kick goals if you ain't getting a game, even though your twice the player white and cox are.
For years plenty of us have said, he can't be relied on to kick goals as a FF but he has a big tank, throw him at CHF, HFF or up on the wing and let him roam up the ground. Wayne Carey has said it. He's like Matthew Richardson. Our coach just plonked him up fwd and our mids just bombed it on his head for 5 years.
This year we changed our fwd set up and tried to hit targets and share it around. When you look at our style in the pre season it was clear he wasn't even meant to be the key target. As bucks said our defensive structures collapsed by round 3, by round 5 it was clear to Bucks it was Cloke's fault ... |
That's a lot of dust being kicked up. My point was simple, you understood it.
You constructed a fact out of thin air and then used your invented fact to 'prove' a completely different, and derogatory, point about the behaviour of the football club.
Make a supposition sure, but why present your guesses and theories as facts?
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Redlight
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
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| Krakouer Magic wrote: | | Redlight wrote: | | Krakouer Magic wrote: | | thompsoc wrote: | | Clifton Hill-Billy wrote: | | Hated the mercenary way he and his father held the club to ransom in 2011, back when he was playing well, the club should apply the same self interest and unless the price is right then he can sit out 2017 or languish in the VFL. |
400 grand for sitting in the VFL might sound good to him. |
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/travis-cloke-officially-requests-trade-away-from-collingwood-magpies-20160830-gr4eug.html
"Cloke has a season to run on his five-year contract although, as he has failed to meet clauses, his salary next year is expected to be slashed from about $800,000 to $400,000."
I wonder if one of those "clauses" would have been to play all 22 games? Or even say bonus' for 14, 16, 18, 20 and 22 games.
So let me get this right.
Cloke got pummelled by 2 and 3 defenders every contest for 5 years because his coaches forward structure was an abomination. The reward Cloke gets when the coaches completely botch the start to the year is to scapegoat him and drop him for Anzac Day.
Then they drop him a further two times during the year even when he is a better option than White or anyone else. This stops him from ever achieving half his potential wage for the year?
That's a an absolute dog act anyway you look at it. |
Hang on.
You 'wonder' if one of the clauses was missed games, then immediately determine that it was (based on, well, nothing really). Then, on the basis of that leap of imagination, you declare the club guilty of a 'dog act'.
OK then. |
Haha you don't think he'd get a bonus for games played? Pretty standard in most football contracts I would have thought. Probably clauses for contested marks and goals kicked too. And you can't take contested marks or kick goals if you ain't getting a game, even though your twice the player white and cox are.
For years plenty of us have said, he can't be relied on to kick goals as a FF but he has a big tank, throw him at CHF, HFF or up on the wing and let him roam up the ground. Wayne Carey has said it. He's like Matthew Richardson. Our coach just plonked him up fwd and our mids just bombed it on his head for 5 years.
This year we changed our fwd set up and tried to hit targets and share it around. When you look at our style in the pre season it was clear he wasn't even meant to be the key target. As bucks said our defensive structures collapsed by round 3, by round 5 it was clear to Bucks it was Cloke's fault ... |
That's a lot of dust being kicked up. My point was simple, you understood it.
You constructed a fact out of thin air and then used your invented fact to 'prove' a completely different, and derogatory, point about the behaviour of the football club.
Make a supposition sure, but why present your guesses and theories as facts?
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eddiesmith 
Lets get ready to Rumble
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Location: Lexus Centre
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | A bit of perspective guys.
Cloke plays his best game of the year and kicks 2 goals.
Riewoldt plays his best game and kicks 9 goals.
I hope Travis does well wherever he goes, but I am looking forward to having forwards who are reliable goal kickers. |
Ha yeah, you can compare the two games! We play a top four team, and but for their extra players we would have won, they were playing the lions! Hell I could kick 9 against them- in heels! |
If Cloke had kicked accurately from 25 metres in front of goal, we'd have won. Crocker kicked more goals than Cloke. |
If the great Darcy Moore could kick accurately from 15 metres in front of goal, we'd have beaten he Bulldogs
But hey we all ignore that because only Cloke misses sitters 
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eddiesmith
Lets get ready to Rumble
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Location: Lexus Centre
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| jackcass wrote: | | themonk wrote: | It's about bloody time.
Knowing the Clokes a deal has already been agreed too, I suspect it's Richmond.
Witts & Cloke for Jack? Yes please!!!!!
Can you imagine 4 accurate kicks in our forward line? Moore, Fasolo, Elliot & Jack.
Btw Love Clokey as I still love Heater but it's time to move on. |
Cloke for Riewoldt would be an acceptable outcome. Can't see Richmond having any interest in that though, they're after an additional forward. |
What a stupid suggestion, you can't drop a bloke to the VFL regularly, lose him because you don't think he is a part of your best 22 and expect anything decent in return
A 3rd rounder absolute best, but Collingwood aint getting any players who would be best 22 anywhere for Cloke
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Magpietothemax
magpietothemax
Joined: 28 Apr 2013
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| jackcass wrote: |
I'd also be interested to know how many of those posters taking issue with the club on this were actually among the loudest over the last few years complaining about Cloke and suggesting he be offloaded. Not pointing fingers, just curious. |
I will answer for my part. I have never suggested that he be offloaded. That would be anathema to me. Always clear to me that Cloke's apparent decline was an expression of the terrible decline in our midfield power and kicking accuracy, as well as the lack of any other credible tall forwards. I always had faith that he would reignite as our midfield improved. That is one reason why I am so shattered now. Right at this very moment, our midfield is now reemerging as a dominant force, with the advent of Treloar and Aish. Morevoer, Darcy Moore is bursting on the scene as potential star key forward. It is right now that the all the conditions are coming together for Trav Cloke to become a dominant force once again. But now, we will never see what might have been.
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Magpietothemax
magpietothemax
Joined: 28 Apr 2013
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| The other reason that I am shattered is that Travis Cloke, a Collingwood legend, has been treated appallingly by our coach. That is impossible to forgive. There is no evidence that Travis Cloke has not trained hard enough, or refused to follow coaches' instructions to lose weight etc, etc...this is just dredged up by those who wish to defend the indefensible.
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| melliot wrote: | Can someone answer my earlier question.
Can we release Cloke from his contract and get a better Draft pick through FA compensation? |
Not that I'm aware. Contract is lodged with the AFL and remains binding unless superseded.
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| eddiesmith wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | themonk wrote: | It's about bloody time.
Knowing the Clokes a deal has already been agreed too, I suspect it's Richmond.
Witts & Cloke for Jack? Yes please!!!!!
Can you imagine 4 accurate kicks in our forward line? Moore, Fasolo, Elliot & Jack.
Btw Love Clokey as I still love Heater but it's time to move on. |
Cloke for Riewoldt would be an acceptable outcome. Can't see Richmond having any interest in that though, they're after an additional forward. |
What a stupid suggestion, you can't drop a bloke to the VFL regularly, lose him because you don't think he is a part of your best 22 and expect anything decent in return
A 3rd rounder absolute best, but Collingwood aint getting any players who would be best 22 anywhere for Cloke |
I think he's easily in our best 22 and would be happy for him to remain in 2017 so why should I expect anything less just because you have a gripe about his treatment this year.
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Sir Alan of Didak 
Joined: 06 Apr 2008
Location: Pascoe Vale South
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cityslick1
Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Location: Melbourne
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Its not his fault, but we shouldve traded him 3 years ago and brought in some genuine young FP talent geared towards partnering with Darcy, & peaking in years 2018 - 2021. Ie, Cripps with carlton's pick 13, plus a later pick... then picking up a Lever or P Wright instead of De Goey in the next draft.
Its been a shocking contract for the club, and as a bulky FPF, he has followed the path of Carey et al and tailed off after the age of 27.
Its such a hard decision to fully re-build, with pressure from fans to stay up the top, and players like Pendles & Swan that you want to win a flag every year for, but he has been well overpaid, has progressively been worse each year, and if we can get some genuine value for him in a trade now, we'll be v lucky.
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| jackcass wrote: | | kymbo5@yahoo.com.au wrote: | | Seth wrote: | Bye Trav, shut the door on the way out.
From all reports has spoken to three coaches already. Instead of working on his game, working on his kicking, he sooks it up some time ago. Good riddance. Better to get something then nothing next year when he leaves anyway.
Sorry but Trav has broken my heart with his goal kicking for way too long. Paid big big money to to take marks and kick goals and he wasnt doing it so off ya go! |
That sounds like emotion talking to me. It's a harsh view.
What I have seen is restraint and class from Travis in the way he has handled this difficult year. I've seen no sooking, on or off the field which, the way he is treated by the umpires is amazing.
I would like to see him stay but am realistic to the fact that is unlikely.
Please don't berate him, he has been a champion for this club and given us more enjoyment than the average player by a mile (despite many frustrating moments admittedly).
Wherever he is next year (with the exception of Whorethorn), I wish him the best and say a genuine thanks to him. |
Well said. |
Yes, sums it up well. One day the history will be written and however it was, and will be, good luck big fella. You've had us on our feet as much as anyone, and you'll always be welcomed back ; but looked at brutally, the last four years have not returned value for our $800k. Pendlebury returned that sort of value, and so did Swanny, but you have done well out of Collingwood, on a pay for performance basis.
Since the wrangler Cloke took over from the leading forward it hasn't quite paid off for us. The sentiment can flow freely when you retire and we'll love to have you back as a life member and every honour.
_________________
Two more flags before I die!
Last edited by Mugwump on Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:31 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| matrix10 wrote: | | Swap with Freo for Mayne/Langdon and maybe Taberner or Collins. |
Or Carlton for Casboult - then we can play spot the difference.
_________________
Two more flags before I die! |
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qldmagpie67
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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| Krakouer Magic wrote: | | qldmagpie67 wrote: | A bit of perspective guys.
Cloke's issue didn't start this season his form and confidence was nth way out from half way mark last year. His second half of last season was very poor.
We enter 2016 and he decides it's a great idea to send a few dick pics out that became public. Really in this day and age that's a great idea ?
For a guy who so mentally fragile I'm sure this boosted his confidences to no end!!!
So we enter the season proper and his body language, efforts and performance were nothing short of terrible. Yes he wasn't on his own but as one of our most experienced players one would expect I much better effort.
He was not dropped for poor goal kicking he was dropped for poor efforts and preparation something he can fix very easily. It was articulated to him and publicly by the coach he needed to show more effort at the contest and second efforts as well as fix his preparation during the week (which I'm assuming is nice speak for start training and practicing properly)
He has always been mentally weak long before Buckley become coach (how many of us have sat there on the edge of our seat when he grabbed that first mark 20m out in front and prayed he kicked because we new if he didn't he would more than likely be shot for the day)
A coach sets the standards that are acceptable and all players including those with vast experience must follow them. If you don't there must be consequences.
Cloke was given every chance to show he had mental toughness to go back work hard and force his way back in. He didn't he got a game because of injury nothing more. The last time he was dropped was due to the opposition and ground not performance but he hadn't done anything to suggest he should stay in either.
Sorry to say it but he has had the sulks all season since he realised he hadn't met his KPI's to trigger the extra money in his contract. His father came out and said the club should renegotiate his deal and extend his contract no matter if he met any agreed KPI' or not. Really this is why long term contracts on big dollars more often than not don't work out.
Cloke at his best was a champion but that best seems behind him now he wants everything on his terms including the way a team and the game is played. His father has let the kid down by not telling him some home truths like a real manager would have.
He's asked for a trade we never forced him out he could have easily stayed and worked his ass off and won back his position and more than likely got a extension but he's chosen to run off and basically turn his back on his club and team mates.
The coach isn't responsible for this the player is |
Or he could go to finals contender and play for a coach that actually has his back. Why bother staying at a club that no matter how poor the set ups and structure is the coach just keeps taking zero responsibility for results and scapegoats his players?
At 29 when your a premiership player, could you seriously be assed hanging around to be hung out to dry by a guy who after 5 years is still making the same amateur mistakes as coach again and again?? |
KM you can't have it both ways ole mate. Your wanting Buckley to be held accountable for his actions but not Cloke ?
When you say has his back Buckley never came out bagged Cloke actually was always very supportive of him in public and always said Cloke we part of our plans once he got his desire for the contest back and prepared correctly.
You can't deny that Cloke's been mentally weak his whole career long before Buckley had any involvement in his career. The game changes every year and Cloke either couldn't or wouldn't adapt simple. At the end of the day the coach is the boss it's either his way or the highway. Why should Buckley treat Cloke any different to any other player ?
What gives Cloke the right to run his own race ?
You say he's making the same mistakes as a coach but you won't acknowledge that Cloke's been making the same mistakes as well but his not accountable for them the coach is.
Mate your desire to have Buckley sacked is admirable and I admire your persistence in expressing your opinion but no player is bigger than club and unfortunately Cloke and his father have for years now made it seem he is bigger than the club.
Remember he asked for the trade we didn't seek to trade him which is a completely different argument. At the end of the day Cloke has chosen the easy option to leave and not work hard to gain his place in th side based on current form not what he did a few years ago.
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