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Plebiscite on gay marriage. Why and why not?

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David Libra

Reel around the fountain


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:16 pm
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Justice has prevailed! Finally. Smile
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Culprit Cancer



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne

PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:46 am
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http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/leaders/history-wont-forget-tony-abbotts-cowardly-act/news-story/b6e1a1818339700ab4b01a40155b5fcd

You know it's bad when Murdoch is openly attacking Abbott.
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Pies4shaw 

"Phil had more talent in his little finger than both Abletts combined displayed in their entire careers"


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:10 am
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So, will this legislation be declared null, retrospectively, when the High Court declares we didn't have a quorum in either House (see the "dual citizenship" thread)?
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Culprit Cancer



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne

PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:13 am
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Pies4shaw wrote:
So, will this legislation be declared null, retrospectively, when the High Court declares we didn't have a quorum in either House (see the "dual citizenship" thread)?
I am sure Tony and his mates are looking into that.
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thesoretoothsayer 



Joined: 26 Apr 2017


PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:17 am
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Glad that's over. Now the left can focus on the next issue central to the future prosperity of this country - getting rid of Australia Day.
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Culprit Cancer



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne

PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:55 am
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thesoretoothsayer wrote:
Glad that's over. Now the left can focus on the next issue central to the future prosperity of this country - getting rid of Australia Day.
Invasion day has to go.
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David Libra

Reel around the fountain


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:11 am
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Culprit wrote:
http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/leaders/history-wont-forget-tony-abbotts-cowardly-act/news-story/b6e1a1818339700ab4b01a40155b5fcd

You know it's bad when Murdoch is openly attacking Abbott.


Anyone seen the final numbers? I found it remarkable that the lower house was so near-unanimous when the Senate had a much more substantial no vote (and many abstentions).

Edit: found them! 136-4, with Abbott, Andrews, Christensen, Hawke, Hastie, Morrison and Sukkar abstaining (Wayne Swan was absent from the chamber).

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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Oxford, England

PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:38 am
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thesoretoothsayer wrote:
Glad that's over. Now the left can focus on the next issue central to the future prosperity of this country - getting rid of Australia Day.


I sort of laughed at this, but then I stopped : this chewing away at cultural and historical markers is critically important. They have known this for fifty years. If you can replace Australia Day, you can accelerate forgetfulness about where our liberties came from, and relocate powers of patronage and control more easily. Orwell knew this when he wrote those chilling, brilliant words : “who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past.”

Similarly, if they can weaken the institutions of the married family and established religion, they can replace it with the parental state - which provides for you and thus has a strong claim on your affection. Decentralised power then cedes right of way to the state, and the value of individual liberty and conscience is supplanted by the values enforced by a governing class.

The Left’s concerns have long been cultural, historical, social and moral. The Right have been primarily concerned with economic prosperity, and rich people with few restraints of conscience rather enjoy the lack of boundaries as well. It is why the Left is winning, and why the West is in obvious decline. It is also why you should fear for liberty and plurality of thought, speech and association, all of which are visibly being intimidated in various ways today.

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David Libra

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Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:45 am
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Mugwump wrote:
It is why the Left is winning


A certain US president suggests otherwise... what's clear, though, is that old-school conservatism is dying, and that a more radical politics on left and right is emerging, with the defenders of the status quo the bland, empty neo-liberal types on the spectrum from Turnbull to Clinton.

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Wokko Pisces

Come and take it.


Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Location: Ballarat!

PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:28 pm
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Katter on gay marriage:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ih1EuMLspY

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David Libra

Reel around the fountain


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:01 pm
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Oh man, you should have seen him in parliament yesterday – Got up to speak numerous times to complain about stuff like the appropriation of the word ‘gay’ (the 1970s called and want its conservative talking points back). There were some poignant comments on his routine from Katherine Murphy in The Guardian:

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/dec/07/parliament-votes-yes-and-casts-a-permanent-shadow-over-abbotts-legacy

Quote:
The visitors’ galleries laughed at the old man in the chamber. Once the rainbow families would have crouched, defensively, at that kind of onslaught, at that kind of visceral public rejection.

Now, it was safe to laugh, because the old man in the chamber, and the history of shaming he represented, was about to be routed.

It was all about to be washed away.


Those on the other side can complain about being the new victims, but ultimately it's hogwash: they will never have to feel what it's like to be oppressed because of who they are, to be kept from who they love or to be officially treated as second-class citizens. The only suffering they have to endure is that their worldview no longer has the upper hand in society, and that the control they once wielded has slipped away. Otherwise, they have and will continue to have the freedom to hold whatever views they like and live whatever lives they wish to. They are the ones who ought to show some humility here: they are the ones who sought to control and lost.

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Dave The Man Scorpio



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:18 pm
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Funny How these Pricks all of a Sudden Behind this ONLY when the Wasted Millions on a Stupid Vote. Pack of Gutless Wonders
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Jezza Taurus



Joined: 05 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End

PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:24 pm
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Wokko wrote:
Katter on gay marriage:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ih1EuMLspY

He experienced the fastest mood swing I've ever seen Laughing

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swoop42 Virgo



Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 22

PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:27 pm
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David wrote:
Culprit wrote:
http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/leaders/history-wont-forget-tony-abbotts-cowardly-act/news-story/b6e1a1818339700ab4b01a40155b5fcd

You know it's bad when Murdoch is openly attacking Abbott.


Anyone seen the final numbers? I found it remarkable that the lower house was so near-unanimous when the Senate had a much more substantial no vote (and many abstentions).

Edit: found them! 136-4, with Abbott, Andrews, Christensen, Hawke, Hastie, Morrison and Sukkar abstaining (Wayne Swan was absent from the chamber).


Why?

The Senate is full of more individuals on the extremes of political opinion in this country (especially the conservative side) some of whom who would be hard pressed winning a house of reps seat because of the need for a significant primary vote.

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David Libra

Reel around the fountain


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Anywhere, I don't care I don't care I don't care

PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:47 pm
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^ Perhaps you’re right. Certainly, I found it interesting that Labor had several no votes and abstentions in the upper house, but that they, apparently, voted as one in favour in the House of Reps; but as you say, the Senate is where Shoppie union dinosaurs get seats for life, whereas winning an electorate is always going to be a trickier proposition.
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