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Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| stui magpie wrote: | | The vast majority of people who don't agree with same sex marriage aren't homophobic. |
And your evidence for this wild ambit claim is?
Yeah, I thought so. No evidence whatsoever.
The fact that this minority wants to ban people from marrying the person they love seems, on the face of it, to be pretty good evidence of either quiet homophobia or else something so close to it as not to matter.
(Notice that the issue here is not parenting or family structure. Gay couples have been raising children for decades and the proposed legislation will nothing whatsoever to change that in any way. It is purely about the right to marry. Nothing else.)
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| stui magpie wrote: | | Plebiscite or not, there deserves to be an adult conversation about issues like this that hit people on an emotional level rather than what has been occurring. |
We have had the conversation.
Over and bloody over. Australians are sick of it. We just want the mongrel bloody government to get of its arse and catch up with the rest of the country (which abandoned the 1950s quite a while ago).
More than two-thirds of Australians are in favour of marriage equality, and made up their minds some time ago. Deal with it. (Or move to North Korea if you like that sort of place.)
Delaying tactics don't cut it. Just get it done and let's move on to other things.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Tannin wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | The vast majority of people who don't agree with same sex marriage aren't homophobic. |
And your evidence for this wild ambit claim is? |
The same as your evidence to the contrary.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Tannin wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | Plebiscite or not, there deserves to be an adult conversation about issues like this that hit people on an emotional level rather than what has been occurring. |
We have had the conversation.
Over and bloody over. Australians are sick of it. We just want the mongrel bloody government to get of its arse and catch up with the rest of the country (which abandoned the 1950s quite a while ago).
More than two-thirds of Australians are in favour of marriage equality, and made up their minds some time ago. Deal with it. (Or move to North Korea if you like that sort of place.)
Delaying tactics don't cut it. Just get it done and let's move on to other things. |
Love it or leave it? Really?
2/3 may be pushing it, may not. 60/40 probably more but i'll agree it's more than 50%.
Did you have a point in there somewhere in response to my post other than your edited out of context dissection ?
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| stui magpie wrote: | | watt price tully wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | It is interesting.
I blame the progressive attack dogs with their method of silencing debate for creating the situation that gays would feel vulnerable in this situation. |
You can blame who ever you like. However the homophobic shite won't be coming from them.
The "they made me do it line" is a bit thin. |
It would be very thin if that's what I was saying.
My point is reasonably simple, one I've made before in relation to other topics, but seemingly too simple.
Firstly, the progressive attack dogs (PAD's), Social Justice Warriors (SJW's), whatever you want to call the particularly activist segment of the progressive movement, don't like debate on their agenda. They silence it with insults, bullying tactics and throwing terms like homophobic, racist, sexist, misogynist, etc at anyone who dares express a view that doesn't follow their agenda to the letter.
As a result, public discussion and debate on an issue like this is neutered. and the people with dissenting views, unless they too exist on the radical end of the spectrum, become cowed and afraid to express their actual opinion publicly.
The vast majority of people who don't agree with same sex marriage aren't homophobic ( there's no doubt there is a minority who are), but are essentially uneducated in the topic, clinging to religious or other ideas. Browbeating these people into submission and silence and fear isn't the way to educate them. As such, there is a silent group who disagree with same sex marriage but aren't homophobic, who a plebiscite will give voice to and the progressive attack dogs fear that because they lose control of the discussion.
I highly doubt that any main stream media would run genuinely homophobic ads even if the PAD's/SJW's will view them as such if they don't agree with their agenda. There is a genuine risk however of a backlash from some of that silenced group on Social media and even in some mainstream media if people feel emboldened enough to actually express their view.
That is the environment that the PAD's/SJW's have created and that is why I said it's their fault if there are Gays who genuinely feel vulnerable.
There is plenty of good quality educative material available that could be used to turn people's opinions toward same sex marriage but instead they've used attack and intimidation. If they continue that approach they will eventually reap what they sow across a number of fronts this just being one.
Plebiscite or not, there deserves to be an adult conversation about issues like this that hit people on an emotional level rather than what has been occurring.
And just for the record, if there is a plebiscite, I'll be voting in favour of same sex marriage. A few years ago it would have been a different response. |
Not simple , your explanation with respect is simplistic & self serving: too much Terry McCrann I'm afraid or his ilk...
Your analysis apportions far too much importance & value to the SJD's & places far too little analysis, in fact omits entirely the power of the right wing nutters - they are organised and they are powerful. The right wing if the libs are pretty cashed up & clued in with resources / advice from the US of A.
Ignoring power relations makes the contention you put forward self serving straw man arguments: that is the fundamental problem that style of argument. Any argument that ignores power ignores the context where this is located. In other words, trees v woods.
The question currently is far too loaded: If there was going to be a question it ought to have been something like:
Do you believe that same sex people have the right to be married to each other?
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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WTF is he talking about? Who are these people who have 'converted' to heterosexuality, and since when did any of them seek to have their 'coming out' celebrated?
To think our country is being held hostage by these fruitcakes.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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There are some people who choose to return to a heterosexual lifestyle, it's quite the thing in the USA. They're shunned and reviled by the gay community, but I'm not sure they want their own Pride parade.
No idea on the malleability of sexuality, if they're bisexual or whatever, just giving the small amount of info I do know, don't really care enough to research further, it's a strange thing for a politician to even mention. |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| How do you know that there some people who choose to return to a heterosexual lifestyle it's the thing in the USA are some people who choose to return to a heterosexual lifestyle it's? |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| Labor just voted to block the plebiscite. It's over. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Yep. Still feels like a massive own goal by the gay rights movement not for Labor, though, who now get to gain maximum political mileage from the issue.
| Wokko wrote: | There are some people who choose to return to a heterosexual lifestyle, it's quite the thing in the USA. They're shunned and reviled by the gay community, but I'm not sure they want their own Pride parade.
No idea on the malleability of sexuality, if they're bisexual or whatever, just giving the small amount of info I do know, don't really care enough to research further, it's a strange thing for a politician to even mention. |
I'm not sure if he's talking about supposed success stories from so-called gay conversion therapy (which seems to be thoroughly scientifically discredited) or bisexuals who choose to enter a heterosexual relationship after being in a same-sex relationship either way, as you say, it's hard to see either people wanting their 'coming out' celebrated.
The thing that Abetz is most tone-deaf on here is that, for most gay/queer people, coming out is a personal matter that takes its gravity from the social pressures that have historically made being gay (and particularly publicly gay) so challenging. I have nothing but admiration for Bob Brown's bravery in coming out as a family doctor in Tasmania in the 1970s, for instance that took real guts. And even in this day and age, where coming out is much less of a big deal for teenagers, there's still stigma attached. For Abetz to be so ignorant about this says a lot about him and his outlook, I think.
I would love to see the look of horror on the faces of these smug pricks if Turnbull managed to call their bluff and get the legislation through. It's not totally impossible: he could point out that both the House of Representatives and the Senate are democratically elected, and that if the House can't get their agenda through they have a responsibility to try another method. And dumping Turnbull for this could spark a huge backlash; knifing a sitting PM for actually showing courage and making a popular decision with the electorate (nothing like the ETS, which never had huge public support) would be something of a suicidal PR move. But I just can't see Turnbull taking such a gamble.
Last edited by David on Tue Oct 11, 2016 2:02 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| That reminds me of something you told me before. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Opportunity lost, for now.
Be interesting to see what impact this has in the polls, if any.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Culprit 
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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| stui magpie wrote: | Opportunity lost, for now.
Be interesting to see what impact this has in the polls, if any. |
$200 million saved. Call a vote and whoever does will win the next election. |
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