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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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^ I agree that the money is a bit of a non-issue. If people were in favour of a plebiscite/referendum (as more than a few were a few years back) then we wouldn't be hearing much about the cost.
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ronrat
Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: Thailand
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Why don't the ALP put up a bill changing the marriage act and have a single coalition member cross the floor. Then we can watch the senate fight it out. Put your action where your mouth is Shorten.
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Annoying opposition supporters since 1967. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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If it were that simple, it would have happened by now. The problem (and one which most people seem to overlook, which is understandable – I didn't know about this until recently either) is that the government of the day doesn't just tend to win all the votes in the lower house, but they also control what gets voted on to begin with. Which is to say, Shorten can put up a private member's bill whenever he likes (and he already has), but if the government don't put it on the agenda then nothing happens to it – it just floats away into the ether.
So, for this tactic to work, you would need to have a complete pro-Turnbull revolt from inside the Liberal Party – and if that happened, then the pro-SSM members of the coalition would just put the bill to the house themselves. I'm not sure how often stuff like that happens, but in the current climate I'm guessing the prospects are pretty low.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
Which is why labor needs to get on board the plebiscite, call the bluff and get it done.
If the plebiscite gets up and the Greens didn't support it, they'll be wiping egg off their faces for years.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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^ The plebiscite is D E A D dead. Stick a fork in it and stop dreaming.
Also (adding to David's excellent answer to Ronrat), it's not one vote required, it's quite a few. Start with Bob Katter's vote, and then look round at the other cross-benchers in the Reps. You might need to get a half-dozen.
Personally, I'm happy for the current situation to drag on and on, as the longer the farce continues, the weaker Turnbull looks, and the more outdated and loopy the hard liners in his party look. It can drag on until the next election. Not that Turnbull has a hope in hell of lasting that long. The Asbestosis Queen will be in the hot seat long before then, and who knows what stance she will take on it? The only thing we can be sure of is that it will not be an honest one.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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I'm still not 100% sure what Labor's game is here. They've talked down the plebiscite so comprehensively that everyone has gotten the impression they're not going to back it – and yet, just the other day, the shadow attorney general was meeting with Brandis to negotiate on it. Are they arse-covering so that, when it gets voted down, they can say they did their best to come to the table (seems most likely)? Or are they still keeping their options open, with the potential of actually backing a compromised bill once the government has been caused maximum angst?
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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ronrat
Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: Thailand
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| Tannin wrote: | ^ The plebiscite is D E A D dead. Stick a fork in it and stop dreaming.
Also (adding to David's excellent answer to Ronrat), it's not one vote required, it's quite a few. Start with Bob Katter's vote, and then look round at the other cross-benchers in the Reps. You might need to get a half-dozen.
Personally, I'm happy for the current situation to drag on and on, as the longer the farce continues, the weaker Turnbull looks, and the more outdated and loopy the hard liners in his party look. It can drag on until the next election. Not that Turnbull has a hope in hell of lasting that long. The Asbestosis Queen will be in the hot seat long before then, and who knows what stance she will take on it? The only thing we can be sure of is that it will not be an honest one.
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In other words the ALP are as weak as $£$%^%%$ piss . Once again it blame some one else. Find some reason to blame the Hanson, or Hinch, or some other bastard
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Annoying opposition supporters since 1967. |
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Culprit 
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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| Vote it down and move on. Turdbull has lost all control and respect and one could suggest his days are numbered judging on opinion polls. They finally passed one budget measure but needed the ALP's votes to do this. The Double Dissolution election is coming back to bite them in the arse big time. |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| ronrat wrote: | | Tannin wrote: | ^ The plebiscite is D E A D dead. Stick a fork in it and stop dreaming.
Also (adding to David's excellent answer to Ronrat), it's not one vote required, it's quite a few. Start with Bob Katter's vote, and then look round at the other cross-benchers in the Reps. You might need to get a half-dozen.
Personally, I'm happy for the current situation to drag on and on, as the longer the farce continues, the weaker Turnbull looks, and the more outdated and loopy the hard liners in his party look. It can drag on until the next election. Not that Turnbull has a hope in hell of lasting that long. The Asbestosis Queen will be in the hot seat long before then, and who knows what stance she will take on it? The only thing we can be sure of is that it will not be an honest one.
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In other words the ALP are as weak as $£$%^%%$ piss . Once again it blame some one else. Find some reason to blame the Hanson, or Hinch, or some other bastard |
WTF are you talking about?
Just exactly what do you want them to do that they aren't already doing? Shoot a few Libs so that, all of a sudden, they have a majority on the floor of the house instead of a minority? Give me a break.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
Well, they could call the Libs bluff and agree to the plebiscite.
The libs aren't going to allow a parliamentary vote in their term of office so that is the issue that is dead.
Labor (and Greens) can be just as bad and argue over how it gets done or they can agree to the plebiscite. The alternative is to wait til the next election, hope Labor gets elected and legislate it then, but if it's so important, why wait when there's an option to do it now?
Politicians playing politics, on all sides, with an issue that should be simple, brings no credit to any of them and in particular the Greens
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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It is interesting.
I blame the progressive attack dogs with their method of silencing debate for creating the situation that gays would feel vulnerable in this situation.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| stui magpie wrote: | It is interesting.
I blame the progressive attack dogs with their method of silencing debate for creating the situation that gays would feel vulnerable in this situation. |
Yes, because it's the progressives who would make them feel bad, not the side of politics that thinks it might be a good idea to have the entire nation vote on whether gays should be allowed to live. |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| stui magpie wrote: | It is interesting.
I blame the progressive attack dogs with their method of silencing debate for creating the situation that gays would feel vulnerable in this situation. |
You can blame who ever you like. However the homophobic shite won't be coming from them.
The "they made me do it line" is a bit thin.
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough†Kinky Friedman |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| watt price tully wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | It is interesting.
I blame the progressive attack dogs with their method of silencing debate for creating the situation that gays would feel vulnerable in this situation. |
You can blame who ever you like. However the homophobic shite won't be coming from them.
The "they made me do it line" is a bit thin. |
It would be very thin if that's what I was saying.
My point is reasonably simple, one I've made before in relation to other topics, but seemingly too simple.
Firstly, the progressive attack dogs (PAD's), Social Justice Warriors (SJW's), whatever you want to call the particularly activist segment of the progressive movement, don't like debate on their agenda. They silence it with insults, bullying tactics and throwing terms like homophobic, racist, sexist, misogynist, etc at anyone who dares express a view that doesn't follow their agenda to the letter.
As a result, public discussion and debate on an issue like this is neutered. and the people with dissenting views, unless they too exist on the radical end of the spectrum, become cowed and afraid to express their actual opinion publicly.
The vast majority of people who don't agree with same sex marriage aren't homophobic ( there's no doubt there is a minority who are), but are essentially uneducated in the topic, clinging to religious or other ideas. Browbeating these people into submission and silence and fear isn't the way to educate them. As such, there is a silent group who disagree with same sex marriage but aren't homophobic, who a plebiscite will give voice to and the progressive attack dogs fear that because they lose control of the discussion.
I highly doubt that any main stream media would run genuinely homophobic ads even if the PAD's/SJW's will view them as such if they don't agree with their agenda. There is a genuine risk however of a backlash from some of that silenced group on Social media and even in some mainstream media if people feel emboldened enough to actually express their view.
That is the environment that the PAD's/SJW's have created and that is why I said it's their fault if there are Gays who genuinely feel vulnerable.
There is plenty of good quality educative material available that could be used to turn people's opinions toward same sex marriage but instead they've used attack and intimidation. If they continue that approach they will eventually reap what they sow across a number of fronts this just being one.
Plebiscite or not, there deserves to be an adult conversation about issues like this that hit people on an emotional level rather than what has been occurring.
And just for the record, if there is a plebiscite, I'll be voting in favour of same sex marriage. A few years ago it would have been a different response.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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