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KenH 
Joined: 24 Jan 2010
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| stui magpie wrote: | I wouldn't believe the figures from Australia marriage equaity simply because of their vested interest.
Grundle said above the polling showed 52-55% and that 60% may be an outlier.
grundle is right, the yes campaigners must get in there and marshall support.
Personally, like it or not, I think this has been a smart political move from Turnbull.
He's been trapped between his own right and Labor/greens squeezing him on an issue that, while it has clear majority support (whatever the actual number) is not something that is in the top 25 priorities for the vast majority. The numbers of people passionate about it on either end are reasonably small. The rest have an opinion but generally wish it would go away.
So by doing this, Turnbull has broken out of the trap and turned the tables on Shorten. Bleat all he wants about the illegitimacy, once people have their vote it will either be legislated or not and Turnbull can then try to get on with things.
Anyone who thinks that after the vote is done, that this single issue will have any real bearing on the next election is in la la land. People vote either on party lines from habit/personal philosophy or based on WIIFM |
Not so sure on that, I know at least 10 relatives of mine who would normally vote LNP will not vote for them next election no matter what result comes out of this! That is at least one good thing that might come out of this! I haven't been able to convince them before not to vote for them, now the LNP have done it for me!
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Cheers big ears |
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Morrigu 
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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Morrigu
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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 DP
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βThe greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.β |
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swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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| Morrigu wrote: | | DP |
Maybe later.
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He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Quite honestly, I wouldn't worry myself about that. |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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Trying to shame, insult and belittle those who would vote differently has proven itself to be an amazingly effective technique over the last couple of years.
Or you know, try a reasoned argument instead. Nobody changes their mind when met with ridicule or hatred, it simply entrenches the viewpoint and leads neutrals to see the attacked party sympathetically. |
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KenH
Joined: 24 Jan 2010
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| Wokko wrote: | Trying to shame, insult and belittle those who would vote differently has proven itself to be an amazingly effective technique over the last couple of years.
Or you know, try a reasoned argument instead. Nobody changes their mind when met with ridicule or hatred, it simply entrenches the viewpoint and leads neutrals to see the attacked party sympathetically. |
That is the point I would like to hear or read a real reason why we should exclude some people from being able to marry. I am yet to hear a reason other than I don't believe in it or it is against my religion.
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Cheers big ears |
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regan is true fullback
Joined: 27 Dec 2002
Location: Granville. nsw
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Wokko wrote:
| Quote: | Trying to shame, insult and belittle those who would vote differently has proven itself to be an amazingly effective technique over the last couple of years.
Or you know, try a reasoned argument instead. Nobody changes their mind when met with ridicule or hatred, it simply entrenches the viewpoint and leads neutrals to see the attacked party sympathetically.
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Ron Fraser's brutal portrayal of Harold Holt on the Mavis Bramston Show brought the drowned one's career to a near end, and showed Australians that a prime minister with his lips permanently fixed to the presidential bottom wasn't such a good idea anyway...
Max Gillies devastating portrayal of Bob Hawke nearly cost him the 84 election.
We knew that it was the beginning of the end for the tyrant of the north, when Jerry Connolly started mocking him...
I seem to remember some of your mates shouting "ditch the witch"...
humour has been used by the powerless to put a spoke in the wheel of the powerful since Egyptian times. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| mandy wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | At 9 and 11 years old if they haven't already been hurt, if not about their sexuality then anyone of a myriad of other things, they've been living in a bubble.
Life is like that, not everyone is going to like you. Assuming their sexuality is fixed at that early age, they are going to cop over their life different attitudes and beliefs. People will call them names for what they believe irrespective of their sexuality. .
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Um, my nephews aren't gay. As far as I know right now. Their Mums are.
I really don't know how to respond to the rest of your post. Accepting poor behaviour and bigotry from others just because it inevitably "will" happen is just not something I'm going to do. Nor will I teach my nephews to either. As irresponsible an aunt as that may make me sound...... |
Sorry, missed the point. Apologies.
In regard to the second bit, there's a difference between accepting the behaviour and accepting that the behaviour will happen and learning how to deal with it.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| KenH wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | I wouldn't believe the figures from Australia marriage equaity simply because of their vested interest.
Grundle said above the polling showed 52-55% and that 60% may be an outlier.
grundle is right, the yes campaigners must get in there and marshall support.
Personally, like it or not, I think this has been a smart political move from Turnbull.
He's been trapped between his own right and Labor/greens squeezing him on an issue that, while it has clear majority support (whatever the actual number) is not something that is in the top 25 priorities for the vast majority. The numbers of people passionate about it on either end are reasonably small. The rest have an opinion but generally wish it would go away.
So by doing this, Turnbull has broken out of the trap and turned the tables on Shorten. Bleat all he wants about the illegitimacy, once people have their vote it will either be legislated or not and Turnbull can then try to get on with things.
Anyone who thinks that after the vote is done, that this single issue will have any real bearing on the next election is in la la land. People vote either on party lines from habit/personal philosophy or based on WIIFM |
Not so sure on that, I know at least 10 relatives of mine who would normally vote LNP will not vote for them next election no matter what result comes out of this! That is at least one good thing that might come out of this! I haven't been able to convince them before not to vote for them, now the LNP have done it for me! |
I dare say that is because it's personal to them. WIIFM at work
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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It does strike me that the Liberals will have badly hurt their gay vote for years over this (and yes, it's bigger than some might think). The fury on social media being expressed by LGBTI people not all of them Leftists and directed at Turnbull is something to behold. People aren't going to forget this kind of bastardry in a hurry.
It didn't have to be like this. Conservatives in the U.K., New Zealand, Germany and elsewhere saw which way the wind was blowing and jumped on the bandwagon in time. Turnbull did too initially, ironically, but now he'll go down in history rightly or wrongly as the guy who wouldn't allow his MPs a parliamentary vote and ended up calling a postal plebiscite. Many will never forgive him or his party over this.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace
Last edited by David on Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:40 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Humans are not always infallible. |
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KenH
Joined: 24 Jan 2010
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| David wrote: | It does strike me that the Liberals will have badly hurt their gay vote for years over this (and yes, it's bigger than some might think). The fury on social media being expressed by LGBTI people not all of them Leftists and directed at Turnbull is something to behold. People aren't going to forget this kind of bastardry in a hurry.
It didn't have to be like this. Conservatives in the U.K., New Zealand, Germany and elsewhere saw which way the wind was blowing and jumped on the bandwagon in time. Turnbull did too initially, ironically, but now he'll go down in history rightly or wrongly as the guy who wouldn't allow his MPs a parliamentary vote and ended up calling a postal plebiscite. Many will never forgive him or his party over this. |
Stui doesn't believe this though, as I said a lot of my relatives who aren't gay but have family or friends who are and are normally very conservative and voted LNP will not vote this lot in next election. It will make a difference Turnbull is finished in my opinion!
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Cheers big ears |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| KenH wrote: | | David wrote: | It does strike me that the Liberals will have badly hurt their gay vote for years over this (and yes, it's bigger than some might think). The fury on social media being expressed by LGBTI people not all of them Leftists and directed at Turnbull is something to behold. People aren't going to forget this kind of bastardry in a hurry.
It didn't have to be like this. Conservatives in the U.K., New Zealand, Germany and elsewhere saw which way the wind was blowing and jumped on the bandwagon in time. Turnbull did too initially, ironically, but now he'll go down in history rightly or wrongly as the guy who wouldn't allow his MPs a parliamentary vote and ended up calling a postal plebiscite. Many will never forgive him or his party over this. |
Stui doesn't believe this though, as I said a lot of my relatives who aren't gay but have family or friends who are and are normally very conservative and voted LNP will not vote this lot in next election. It will make a difference Turnbull is finished in my opinion! |
I do believe you, the family or friends provides the WIIFM. It's personal for them.
What i don't believe is that there is enough people in that situation to make an impact in the election. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. There's a first time for everything. 
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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KenH
Joined: 24 Jan 2010
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| stui magpie wrote: | | KenH wrote: | | David wrote: | It does strike me that the Liberals will have badly hurt their gay vote for years over this (and yes, it's bigger than some might think). The fury on social media being expressed by LGBTI people not all of them Leftists and directed at Turnbull is something to behold. People aren't going to forget this kind of bastardry in a hurry.
It didn't have to be like this. Conservatives in the U.K., New Zealand, Germany and elsewhere saw which way the wind was blowing and jumped on the bandwagon in time. Turnbull did too initially, ironically, but now he'll go down in history rightly or wrongly as the guy who wouldn't allow his MPs a parliamentary vote and ended up calling a postal plebiscite. Many will never forgive him or his party over this. |
Stui doesn't believe this though, as I said a lot of my relatives who aren't gay but have family or friends who are and are normally very conservative and voted LNP will not vote this lot in next election. It will make a difference Turnbull is finished in my opinion! |
I do believe you, the family or friends provides the WIIFM. It's personal for them.
What i don't believe is that there is enough people in that situation to make an impact in the election. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. There's a first time for everything. |
Fair enough we will have to wait and see!
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Cheers big ears |
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