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Plebiscite on gay marriage. Why and why not?

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Pies4shaw 



Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:35 pm
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David wrote:
Oh man, you should have seen him in parliament yesterday – Got up to speak numerous times to complain about stuff like the appropriation of the word ‘gay’ (the 1970s called and want its conservative talking points back). There were some poignant comments on his routine from Katherine Murphy in The Guardian:

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/dec/07/parliament-votes-yes-and-casts-a-permanent-shadow-over-abbotts-legacy

Quote:
The visitors’ galleries laughed at the old man in the chamber. Once the rainbow families would have crouched, defensively, at that kind of onslaught, at that kind of visceral public rejection.

Now, it was safe to laugh, because the old man in the chamber, and the history of shaming he represented, was about to be routed.

It was all about to be washed away.


Those on the other side can complain about being the new victims, but ultimately it's hogwash: they will never have to feel what it's like to be oppressed because of who they are, to be kept from who they love or to be officially treated as second-class citizens. The only suffering they have to endure is that their worldview no longer has the upper hand in society, and that the control they once wielded has slipped away. Otherwise, they have and will continue to have the freedom to hold whatever views they like and live whatever lives they wish to. They are the ones who ought to show some humility here: they are the ones who sought to control and lost.

Stop insulting the 1970s gratuitously, please. Razz
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David Libra

Reel around the fountain


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Pripyat, in spirit

PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:13 pm
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Hey, I love that decade’s films and music! Its born-again conservatives, not so much. Razz
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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:32 pm
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David wrote:
Mugwump wrote:
It is why the Left is winning


A certain US president suggests otherwise... what's clear, though, is that old-school conservatism is dying, and that a more radical politics on left and right is emerging, with the defenders of the status quo the bland, empty neo-liberal types on the spectrum from Turnbull to Clinton.


Well yes, it’s rather Weimar-like in some respects, and the parallel may deepen when the next economic crisis comes. With high public and private indebtedness, vastly overpriced assets, and promiscuous monetary policy already in place, there is little in conventional economics to moderate the effects. Yet put the fragmented Western societies we have today under real pressure and I think they will explode.

The meaning of Trump is pretty obscure, as he represents no coherent world-view at all. My guess is that he’s the first breath of a hurricane. History doesn’t repeat, but it rhymes.

Why do I say that the Left is winning ? Because it has already succeeded in knocking away the props of private life and conscience, and in creating a vast and hungry state in their place, backed by a punitive apparatus which threatens the reputations and livelihoods of dissenters. Very few of the educated young can think outside of its precepts. The semi-Fascist alt-right is merely reacting to that. By comparison, traditional honest conservatism is nowhere.

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