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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
Cronulla.
Enough said.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Morrigu 
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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| Jezza wrote: | | David wrote: | | I'm not necessarily a huge fan of Birmingham, but the thing he gets most right is that while everyone is worrying about hurting poor Sonia's feelings � all morning, apparently, breakfast TV hosts have been insisting that she's not a racist and that she's just a nice person bravely sharing her opinion (*gag*) � something few people seem to realise is that when the nice lady on TV says "all Muslims should be banned from coming here", she's saying to every single Muslim in Australia "your kind isn't welcome here any more". It goes to show that commercial breakfast TV is the kind of place that is more comfortable with an extremist than someone who would rudely call her out on it. |
She's entitled to her opinion and for what it's worth I don't agree with her premise of completely banning Muslim migration in this country. I do endorse a highly regulated immigration system rather than an open borders policy but that's another discussion all together.
She didn't say anything racist unless Islam and being a Muslim is now a race, so technically she wasn't racist when she made her comments so therefore the comments of her "not being a racist" are factually correct.
To be frank, I'm more disgusted that the far/regressive left have done everything in their power to verbally abuse her on social media and discredit her with name-calling rather than sensibly engaging in political discourse. The same thing happened last night outside Q&A studios with Pauline Hanson with a mob of far-left idiots trying to intimidate her.
I'd rather hear what she says than to silence her which inadvertently only helps her generate even further support.
This country isn't suffering from Islamophobia (which is in reality a way to silence critics of Islam/Islamism), but we're suffering from discourse phobia (the fear of debating difficult issues and hearing both sides of the argument and trying to reach and sensible and practical solution or ideas of that issue). |
Well said Jezza 👏👏👏
_________________
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” |
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Morrigu
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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| stui magpie wrote: | There may not be a lot of muslims where you live, but there's plenty of African muslims around Preston and Heidelberg. I go shopping around there a bit, see plenty of women in their batman outfits and I've never seen anything like that.
FFS go to the Thomastown Sunday market if you want to visit the UN and see what the lack of tension looks like |
Or come to work with me 
Mind you when the carpark is full ........... then the comments fly from ALL sides- Muslim terrorist, western slut from the Muslims - have even copped that once or twice myself, black so and so, curry muncher and even heard slope head the other day haven't heard that one for a while!!
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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” |
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Morrigu
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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'Sonia Kruger is not evil': Waleed Aly defends Today Extra host, calls on Australians to stop 'cycle of outrage'
Waleed Aly has spoken out in defence of Sonia Kruger saying she isn't "evil" and admitting he shares something in common with the Today Extra host - fear for Australia's future.
In a moving plea, Aly calls for Australians to empathise with one another during what he calls these 'dark times'.
"Sonia Kruger is not evil - she's scared," The Project host said in an editorial on Monday evening, in which he called for an end to the "cycle of outrage".
"Yesterday she [Kruger] admitted to not feeling safe. And how do you think she feels now? How do you expect her to react?
It's this cycle of legitimate fear that's met with hostility or derision that's led to more than 500,000 Australians voting for Pauline Hanson two weeks ago
http://www.theage.com.au/entertainment/tv-and-radio/sonia-kruger-is-not-evil-waleed-aly-defends-today-extra-host-calls-on-australians-to-stop-cycle-of-outrage-20160719-gq9ak7
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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Morrigu wrote: | 'Sonia Kruger is not evil': Waleed Aly defends Today Extra host, calls on Australians to stop 'cycle of outrage'
Waleed Aly has spoken out in defence of Sonia Kruger saying she isn't "evil" and admitting he shares something in common with the Today Extra host - fear for Australia's future.
In a moving plea, Aly calls for Australians to empathise with one another during what he calls these 'dark times'.
"Sonia Kruger is not evil - she's scared," The Project host said in an editorial on Monday evening, in which he called for an end to the "cycle of outrage".
"Yesterday she [Kruger] admitted to not feeling safe. And how do you think she feels now? How do you expect her to react?
It's this cycle of legitimate fear that's met with hostility or derision that's led to more than 500,000 Australians voting for Pauline Hanson two weeks ago
http://www.theage.com.au/entertainment/tv-and-radio/sonia-kruger-is-not-evil-waleed-aly-defends-today-extra-host-calls-on-australians-to-stop-cycle-of-outrage-20160719-gq9ak7 |
I posted that already! But two won't hurt 
With respect to Hanson, we also need to look at the context it's located in: very difficult economic times with real reductions in people's incomes, higher costs of living in terms of user pays on utilities etc, high unemployment (despite the actual figures which are high enough but don't tell the real story), more working poor etc & conspicuous consumption by some ethnic groups provides fertile soil for the politics of fear & hate to germinate & grow.
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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Culprit 
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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| watt price tully wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | David wrote: | | Jezza wrote: |
This country isn't suffering from Islamophobia (which is in reality a way to silence critics of Islam/Islamism), but we're suffering from discourse phobia (the fear of debating difficult issues and hearing both sides of the argument and trying to reach and sensible and practical solution or ideas of that issue). |
I'm not a huge fan of the term Islamophobia either, but how else do we describe the experiences of the Muslim father on Q&A last night who says he gets called a 'Muslim pig' on the streets on a regular basis?
It's not racism, because Islam isn't a race. It isn't Islamophobia, because that's just a made up term. It's not xenophobia, because that's just name-calling and a way to silence dissent. So what is it?
If I may exercise my own free speech for a second, please get your head out of the sand for a minute. Among the kind of people who vote for One Nation or the Australian Liberty Alliance or turn up to Reclaim Australia or Ban the Mosque rallies, there are a large number of people who will call a passer-by a 'Muslim pig', or spit on them, or try to rip a woman's headscarf off. And that's a reality that ordinary law-abiding Muslims have to live with now. And every time Hanson or some Breakfast TV host or whoever calls for Muslims to be banned from the country, those numbers only go up. So call it whatever you like; but unless you're willing to stand up against this kind of violence and intimidation, then you're part of the problem. |
Lets first look at what he means by a regular basis. 20 times a day? once a week? once a month?
Then lets look at where he lives and what the local experience is with the Muslim population.
There's any numbers of things that go into that pot, trying to manufacture a way to make his experience, as bad as it may be, reflective of general society is utter BS.
There may not be a lot of muslims where you live, but there's plenty of African muslims around Preston and Heidelberg. I go shopping around there a bit, see plenty of women in their batman outfits and I've never seen anything like that.
FFS go to the Thomastown Sunday market if you want to visit the UN and see what the lack of tension looks like |
Stui, I was watching Q & A last night. The bloke said he lives & works & helps out in Cronulla. He loves living there for about the the last 6 years or so.
However, he reports quite genuinely it seemed that since the advent of Pauline & her mob he then started copping the abuse which for him was not his experience before she decided to enter the fray. |
That's the issue, he is not welcome in the Shire or Gods Own Country as the locals refer to it. I love the shire as there are only 4 ways in and out and the Police certainly stop the fully sick Nissan Silvia's from crossing the white border.  |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Please, that question is begreath me. |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Wokko wrote: | The left has never wanted to hear dissenting views or have a discussion because their position has been logically debated and found wanting over and over again. After losing a debate, they wake up the next morning and have the exact same position they had the day before only now cognitive dissonance has kicked in; their ego engages and it becomes an abuse fest.
The likes of David who are happy to debate the issues are few and far between, far more likely you'll just cop a stream of buzzword abuse and if that doesn't silence you they'll start throwing fists. Vile ideology that attracts the worst self hating small people. |
In a discussion about Pauline Hanson (why it's in the US election thread is a matter of some mystery), we're attacking something called "the left" for being a "Vile ideology that attracts the worst self hating small people"? Oh, the irony. |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | Oh, the irony. |
Nice one Alanis. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Jezza wrote: | | David wrote: | | I'm not necessarily a huge fan of Birmingham, but the thing he gets most right is that while everyone is worrying about hurting poor Sonia's feelings � all morning, apparently, breakfast TV hosts have been insisting that she's not a racist and that she's just a nice person bravely sharing her opinion (*gag*) � something few people seem to realise is that when the nice lady on TV says "all Muslims should be banned from coming here", she's saying to every single Muslim in Australia "your kind isn't welcome here any more". It goes to show that commercial breakfast TV is the kind of place that is more comfortable with an extremist than someone who would rudely call her out on it. |
She's entitled to her opinion and for what it's worth I don't agree with her premise of completely banning Muslim migration in this country. I do endorse a highly regulated immigration system rather than an open borders policy but that's another discussion all together.
She didn't say anything racist unless Islam and being a Muslim is now a race, so technically she wasn't racist when she made her comments so therefore the comments of her "not being a racist" are factually correct.
To be frank, I'm more disgusted that the far/regressive left have done everything in their power to verbally abuse her on social media and discredit her with name-calling rather than sensibly engaging in political discourse. The same thing happened last night outside Q&A studios with Pauline Hanson with a mob of far-left idiots trying to intimidate her.
I'd rather hear what she says than to silence her which inadvertently only helps her generate even further support.
This country isn't suffering from Islamophobia (which is in reality a way to silence critics of Islam/Islamism), but we're suffering from discourse phobia (the fear of debating difficult issues and hearing both sides of the argument and trying to reach and sensible and practical solution or ideas of that issue). |
I once witnessed an orang-utan (in the nasty, old enclosure) throwing poo at a teasing crowd of onlookers at Melbourne Zoo. The poor orang-utan at least had a reasonable basis for his fears - he really was being locked up and tormented. I don't recall any keepers rushing to defend his right to an opinion, though.
Not all dumb, irrational prejudices qualify as a belief-system or as values. Sometimes they are just dumb, irrational prejudices. |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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Love it.
In the Age today!
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | Jezza wrote: | | David wrote: | | I'm not necessarily a huge fan of Birmingham, but the thing he gets most right is that while everyone is worrying about hurting poor Sonia's feelings � all morning, apparently, breakfast TV hosts have been insisting that she's not a racist and that she's just a nice person bravely sharing her opinion (*gag*) � something few people seem to realise is that when the nice lady on TV says "all Muslims should be banned from coming here", she's saying to every single Muslim in Australia "your kind isn't welcome here any more". It goes to show that commercial breakfast TV is the kind of place that is more comfortable with an extremist than someone who would rudely call her out on it. |
She's entitled to her opinion and for what it's worth I don't agree with her premise of completely banning Muslim migration in this country. I do endorse a highly regulated immigration system rather than an open borders policy but that's another discussion all together.
She didn't say anything racist unless Islam and being a Muslim is now a race, so technically she wasn't racist when she made her comments so therefore the comments of her "not being a racist" are factually correct.
To be frank, I'm more disgusted that the far/regressive left have done everything in their power to verbally abuse her on social media and discredit her with name-calling rather than sensibly engaging in political discourse. The same thing happened last night outside Q&A studios with Pauline Hanson with a mob of far-left idiots trying to intimidate her.
I'd rather hear what she says than to silence her which inadvertently only helps her generate even further support.
This country isn't suffering from Islamophobia (which is in reality a way to silence critics of Islam/Islamism), but we're suffering from discourse phobia (the fear of debating difficult issues and hearing both sides of the argument and trying to reach and sensible and practical solution or ideas of that issue). |
I once witnessed an orang-utan (in the nasty, old enclosure) throwing poo at a teasing crowd of onlookers at Melbourne Zoo. The poor orang-utan at least had a reasonable basis for his fears - he really was being locked up and tormented. I don't recall any keepers rushing to defend his right to an opinion, though.
Not all dumb, irrational prejudices qualify as a belief-system or as values. Sometimes they are just dumb, irrational prejudices. |
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | Wokko wrote: | The left has never wanted to hear dissenting views or have a discussion because their position has been logically debated and found wanting over and over again. After losing a debate, they wake up the next morning and have the exact same position they had the day before only now cognitive dissonance has kicked in; their ego engages and it becomes an abuse fest.
The likes of David who are happy to debate the issues are few and far between, far more likely you'll just cop a stream of buzzword abuse and if that doesn't silence you they'll start throwing fists. Vile ideology that attracts the worst self hating small people. |
In a discussion about Pauline Hanson (why it's in the US election thread is a matter of some mystery), we're attacking something called "the left" for being a "Vile ideology that attracts the worst self hating small people"? Oh, the irony. |
Irony indeed. Just more of the politics of fear & hate that only serves divisiveness.
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| CP wrote: | | CP wrote: | A few years back many staunch advocates for spending hundreds of billions of dollars on reducing carbon dioxide emissions in order to combat man-made global warming used a pretty consistent argument to proffer their case. It took the emotion out and instead based it on risk management.
The argument was that if we did spend this money and AGW turned out to not be as catastrophic as the models predict, then all we've lost is the money and we have 'cleaner' industry for it. BUT, if we didn't spend the money and AGW turns Earth into a fiery hell-hole, then we've lost EVERYHTING.
It made reasonable sense to the most ardent anti-AGW campaigner and became at least a platform by which to mount a conversation.
Fast forward about 6 years and a similar argument can be used for the abolition of Muslim immigration into civilised, progressive western cultures.
If countries such as continental Europe, Australia, Japan, Canada, USA, much of South America and the British Isles ceased the intake of Muslims and the threat of Islam isn't as big as the Koran insists it should be, then our communities in effect, will have lost essentially nothing.
BUT, if we keep Muslim immigration rolling and allow 'refugees' from Muslim countries into our lands and they are indeed on jihad to effectively convert or kill 'unbelievers' and implement sharia law as dictated in the Koran, then we have lost EVERYHTING. |
In light of events over the past few months, I was reminded of this purest form of truth. |
So you were wrong then & continue to be wrong now, And you quote yourself for that rubbish. Really  Legend in you own lunchbox.
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| stui magpie wrote: | Lets first look at what he means by a regular basis. 20 times a day? once a week? once a month?
Then lets look at where he lives and what the local experience is with the Muslim population.
There's any numbers of things that go into that pot, trying to manufacture a way to make his experience, as bad as it may be, reflective of general society is utter BS.
There may not be a lot of muslims where you live, but there's plenty of African muslims around Preston and Heidelberg. I go shopping around there a bit, see plenty of women in their batman outfits and I've never seen anything like that.
FFS go to the Thomastown Sunday market if you want to visit the UN and see what the lack of tension looks like |
He said on a daily basis, actually. Is he exaggerating? How would you know? The funny thing with not being on the end of this stuff is you're much less likely to witness it, and consequently much more likely to think it's not a real problem. But what I do know is that I would feel unsafe if I knew that there were a large number of people out there who hate me because of the way I look or who I am. Once you get spat on enough times, the likelihood increases that someone is going to punch you in the face or try to swerve and hit you with their car. It's not easy being the target of hate because of how you look � and that's why people who (perhaps erroneously) call this stuff racism are much closer to the truth than the would-be linguists who insist that Islam is a religion, not a race, as if that somehow resolves anything.
Of course I don't see a lot of the abuse that individual Muslims experience either, because I'm not walking in their shoes for 24 hours a day. But what I can go on is anti-Muslim comments that I hear at work, or at the pub, or from passers-by. They have certainly been increasing lately, so the sentiment is out there. And Kruger and people like her are telling people who feel that way that their prejudice is legitimate. So expect a lot more of it.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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