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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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It's not a matter of having buy it or not.
If you have 30 kids going for 5 available jobs then.....
If you go to Scotch College then.....
If you go to North Dandenong Secondary College then...
if your parents are employed then....
If your parent are unemployed then....
If your parents are smokers then....
If your parents are drinkers then....
If you can't read or write properly then....
If various governments make economic decisions over the years that have adversely affected you neck of the woods then......
Of course some individuals can make it but it stacked against you overwhelmingly.
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
Sad outlook mate.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Culprit 
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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Many African youth are destined for jail or an early death. Bringing refugees into this country and dumping them here and thinking everything will work out is a massive fail. There is no support and the bleeding hearts that cry for them do nothing. They are no where to be seen other than spin their rhetoric that we are the lucky country. We fail at every level.
Last edited by Culprit on Thu Nov 17, 2016 6:00 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Morrigu 
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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There is a lack of respect for the authorities from many especially the Africans - they hold no fear as the consequences here for breaking the law as we have a very different approach to what one sees in Africa. Not that that is a bad thing per se - pretty brutal over there not suggesting we want to go down that path but we do need to adopt a harder line - there has to be consequences not just a slap on the wrist and off you go to do it again ( and again and again and again!!)
And a huge cultural component - many fathers are not around ( for a variety of reasons) and young African men in general pay little heed to their women - even at say 12 the male wil be the " head of the house" rather than the mother. The community need to do more and sorry but stop screaming racism at every opportunity - yes maybe occasionally - but again responsibility for actions and consequences for breaking the law especially when the offences being committed are at the high end and very violent.
Most of the worst of them are not traumatised child soldiers from Sudan or Somali - born here or arrived at an early age !!
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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| stui magpie wrote: | ^
Sad outlook mate. |
Realistic not sad.
Money for community resources such as more aides in schools, more outlets such as sports etc, more money for community participation, more regulation to ensure that bigger companies etc employ apprentices, better public transport & housing options etc will all contribute to assist people to be part of the community.
All of these (& much more) are needed for the poor / disadvantaged etc
Individuals can make it but that is the exception (& I do believe in individual responsibility too)
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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Woods Of Ypres
Joined: 27 May 2003
Location: Yugoslavia
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had this Sudanese bloke last week literally crawl onto the train carriage reeking of alcohol, eventually he gets to his feet and plonks himself in front of a horrified Asian couple. the Sudanese gentleman starts screaming NI HAO! NI HAO! gotta love Melbourne  |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
I disagree based on my experiences. I think it's sad and pre-deterministic.
You can pour money into a problem, it won't fix it.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Bruce Gonsalves
Joined: 05 Jul 2012
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| Woods Of Ypres wrote: | | had this Sudanese bloke last week literally crawl onto the train carriage reeking of alcohol, eventually he gets to his feet and plonks himself in front of a horrified Asian couple. the Sudanese gentleman starts screaming NI HAO! NI HAO! gotta love Melbourne |
Might be the bare footed African bloke who stunk of alcohol who kidnapped and killed the Indian infant in Heidelberg West. |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| stui magpie wrote: | ^
I disagree based on my experiences. I think it's sad and pre-deterministic.
You can pour money into a problem, it won't fix it. |
It is sad of course. It isn't determined though. The economy is a shaper if not a mediator in peoples lives. It is not pre determined but a shaper.
It's not pouring money in that has been the issue but taking money out that has been the issue - over decades of neglect. User pays is great for those of us who can afford to pay otherwise it's a rotten notion of the economic rationalists.
All kids need a structure be it family, school, clubs groups etc. APEX or something similar is the structure / support for a few very bad boys many of who have inadequate structures due to a number of variables such as culture, ethnicity, war class etc
Money ought to be targetted to areas where structure can play a role.
In my experience having a structure for the day & the week with simple in-built rewards can assist people. This takes resources but the benefits can be enormous.
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Woods Of Ypres wrote: | | had this Sudanese bloke last week literally crawl onto the train carriage reeking of alcohol, eventually he gets to his feet and plonks himself in front of a horrified Asian couple. the Sudanese gentleman starts screaming NI HAO! NI HAO! gotta love Melbourne |
Alcoholism amongst some Sudanese men is a big issue. Having said that most of the alcoholics I see are white caucasians & I see & work with a lot of alcohol affected people.
Had a woman the other day (not in the biblical sense) who was 0.37 when her bloods were done - passed out in taxi - heavy alcohol user and like a lot of people drinks to self medicate her awful anxiety.
The taxi driver took the unconscious woman went to a police station  not a hospital (probably wanted his fare paid)
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| watt price tully wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | ^
I disagree based on my experiences. I think it's sad and pre-deterministic.
You can pour money into a problem, it won't fix it. |
It is sad of course. It isn't determined though. The economy is a shaper if not a mediator in peoples lives. It is not pre determined but a shaper.
It's not pouring money in that has been the issue but taking money out that has been the issue - over decades of neglect. User pays is great for those of us who can afford to pay otherwise it's a rotten notion of the economic rationalists.
All kids need a structure be it family, school, clubs groups etc. APEX or something similar is the structure / support for a few very bad boys many of who have inadequate structures due to a number of variables such as culture, ethnicity, war class etc
Money ought to be targetted to areas where structure can play a role.
In my experience having a structure for the day & the week with simple in-built rewards can assist people. This takes resources but the benefits can be enormous. |
And there is people trying to achieve just that but it's very difficult. One of my best friends is a teacher, and She is now deputy head at a school with more than 50% refugees. Some of the tales of these poor (primary school level) kids is heart breaking. From what they have seen in the past, to trying to cope with a new language, new reality, and parents doing the same. But She says the ratio of good bad parents is no different from teaching at any school.
It's a shame to categorise by race, but it's also a fact that just a couple of suburbs over, there is a gang of Sudanese youth terrorising the place. But then it used to be a Lebanese gang. when I was a rep one of the stores had a few Sudanese kids working as casuals, and they were fantastic hard working kids.
Maybe the parents who come in need a form of education, (do they get any at all?) as to the Aussie way of life, our laws, expectations etc. one things for sure they should all have to do the L plate, P plate thing! I swear half the Indian drivers around here got their licence from a wheetie packet!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Bruce Gonsalves
Joined: 05 Jul 2012
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| The Sudanese parents really have to lift their game with government help. Back where these guys come from, the whole village comes together to bring the kids up, once out here the parents do not have parenting skills. |
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Morrigu
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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^ then they should go back - win win!
_________________
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| Morrigu wrote: | | ^ then they should go back - win win! |
Indeed, all of us who are Australian citizens are given an extraordinary privilege in being permitted to share in the wealth and opportunity (financial and political) derived from two centuries of broadly competent government and the work of past generations.
If new and recent arrivals cannot grasp that they owe some gratitude and service to the country as a result, then perhaps it is time for citizenship of refugees and immigrants, and their children, to be probationary for a period, and subject to revocation in the event of conviction of a serious felony. That way we could accommodate more of those who deserve and value the privilege.
If this seems harsh, then it is only because the comfortable classes have been conditioned to snigger at an ethic of responsibility which most ordinary people (many of them less rich and less educated) consider self-evident. People commit acts, for good or ill ; and we owe them the dignity of considering them moral agents who can act wilfully and accept well-advertised just consequences. They are not wards of a state which should assume responsibility (ie be blamed) for their misdeeds.
Only when we rediscover that basic ethic, might we recover some of the kindness, safety, social cohesion, quiet patriotism, tolerance and civility (not to mention public financial responsibility) that we have lost.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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Morrigu
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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^ so Mug my words were not in fact my words but those of colleagues who are African refugees themselves.
I recently gave a lecture on clinically significant red cell antibodies and the difficulties in providing compatible blood with the diverse ethnic populations espicially when the majority of our current donor population are Caucasian.
This is very problematic given the propensity for the population that most frequently carry antibodies ( Africans) against common antigens of our donors for breeding and PPH is not uncommon complication.
At the end of the lecture we were discussing how to engage and encourage ethnic minorities to donate ( the prevalence of TTIs such as HIV present a significant problem) - the conversation became interesting to say the least!!
One attendee said " they are too lazy to do so and have forgotten that the community is important "
Two or maybe three were outraged and attacked his opinion with some vigour!
Hmmm - the initial response was from a Sudanese refuge and the outrage from white folk.
The conversation continued and broadened itself to the greater issues and the violent offences committed by African youth.
TBH it got a little embarrassing - I've been to Africa a few times now but an expert that does not make me - in the end he and 3 other Africans of colour said and I quote " there needs to be work and purpose - at home we would have tasks - no-one gives us money for not working - we collected water, we collected firewood - we got nothing without our work to get it"
We are not doing them or ourselves any favours with our current approach IMHO
_________________
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” |
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