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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Morrigu wrote: | | watt price tully wrote: | | Skids wrote: | What a crazy idea! The industry employs around 15000 directly and thousands more indirectly in NSW alone.
All they need to do is police and enforce the codes laws.
We might as well ban ALL pet ownership because 1000's of people mistreat their domestic pets.
Will be successfully contested in the courts I believe. |
Are you on the methane again?
The point about it is it is not one or two bad apples. Essentially a lot of the industry in NSW is part of maltreatment, murder & cruelty to Greyhounds.
If you can't run a business without murder, cruelty, maltreatment then those responsible that is the industry can f*ck off. However they do need assistance to "downsize" & adapt.
They were given plenty of time & plenty of chances. The owners & trainers etc utterly ignored the opportunity they were given.
Now for jumps racing & getting rid of the horse drawn carriages in Melbourne's CBD.
One of the measures of a civilised society is how you treat the defenceless. |
Bang on WPT 👍 |
My family tell me I bang on all the time 
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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While the ban is a good idea & I'm 100% behind it, I think it needs to be done over a few years because of the investment some people have in it. Make the target say 2020 then manage the elimination of grey hound racing in NSW, ACT & hopefully elsewhere too.
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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5150 
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
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I'm going with knee jerk then flip flop.
Hopefully enough to straighten the industry up, there are a lot of good people nationally that will be greatly affect.
If its reintroduced, very strict (jail terms/lifetime bans/extraordinary heavy fines) must be enforced for offenders, no slap on the wrists... which should have been done first time around. |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| 5150 wrote: | I'm going with knee jerk then flip flop.
Hopefully enough to straighten the industry up, there are a lot of good people nationally that will be greatly affect.
If its reintroduced, very strict (jail terms/lifetime bans/extraordinary heavy fines) must be enforced for offenders, no slap on the wrists... which should have been done first time around. |
For those who can't read and willfully misconstrue:
The industry has to go period. Timing is the issue. The industry has shown contempt: animal cruelty & murder continues unabaited
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Why, specificially? |
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5150
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
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| watt price tully wrote: | | 5150 wrote: | I'm going with knee jerk then flip flop.
Hopefully enough to straighten the industry up, there are a lot of good people nationally that will be greatly affect.
If its reintroduced, very strict (jail terms/lifetime bans/extraordinary heavy fines) must be enforced for offenders, no slap on the wrists... which should have been done first time around. |
For those who can't read and willfully misconstrue:
The industry has to go period. Timing is the issue. The industry has shown contempt: animal cruelty & murder continues unabaited |
Just your opinion Vs mine.
Yes, I think some have shown contempt to the industry standards, but not enough has been done to ensure the industry standards. Whose fault is that? I'm not sure.
I don't want to tar 90-95% of a certain industry as murderers due to a small percentage of numb nuts who thought they could flaunt the system.
Don't for one minute insinuate I can't read or don't care, I know more about this industry than you could imagine. It needs a kick in the ass, not a total ban. |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| The best way to deal with an industry that is guilty of killing some of their dogs is to kill all of their dogs. Got it. |
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5150
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
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| Wokko wrote: | | The best way to deal with an industry that is guilty of killing some of their dogs is to kill all of their dogs. Got it. |
Got it.
I have heard some chook and pig farmers have mistreat their chooks and pigs.
I won't enjoy my Sunday bacon and eggs tomorrow.
My coffee is also not fair trade so I'm sure it will be bitter.
I also hope the Herald Sun is printed on recyclable paper otherwise I've got a trifecta of shitfullness ahead of me... |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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^ Well, if you're reading the Sunday Herald Sun, all I can say is I hope your coffee-making and breakfast frying skills are up to scratch, because you're already a third of the way there. 
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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5150
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
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| David wrote: | | ^ Well, if you're reading the Sunday Herald Sun, all I can say is I hope your coffee-making and breakfast frying skills are up to scratch, because you're already a third of the way there. |
I've just subscribed to The Age and Huffington Post.
I hope my odds have improved!
Anyone know a good free range egg white omelette recipe? |
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Morrigu 
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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It's not just the dogs they kill or export unauthorised to Asia for them to torture and kill it is all the animals who are killed horrifically by being used as live bait. And they will continue to breed and discard those that don't make humans money.
And they had chances they decided they were above regulation ( and decency) so they can suck it up - I couldn't give a flying fig what happens to them!
Its all about the rights of humans and the State imposing rules on humans - stuff the animals - " wastage" huh Got it!
_________________
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| watt price tully wrote: | | Skids wrote: | What a crazy idea! The industry employs around 15000 directly and thousands more indirectly in NSW alone.
All they need to do is police and enforce the codes laws.
We might as well ban ALL pet ownership because 1000's of people mistreat their domestic pets.
Will be successfully contested in the courts I believe. |
Are you on the methane again?
The point about it is it is not one or two bad apples. Essentially a lot of the industry in NSW is part of maltreatment, murder & cruelty to Greyhounds.
If you can't run a business without murder, cruelty, maltreatment then those responsible that is the industry can f*ck off. However they do need assistance to "downsize" & adapt.
They were given plenty of time & plenty of chances. The owners & trainers etc utterly ignored the opportunity they were given.
Now for jumps racing & getting rid of the horse drawn carriages in Melbourne's CBD.
One of the measures of a civilised society is how you treat the defenceless. |
Are you sure about that bolded bit? Have a source?
I ask because apparently holes are being poked in the report big time, quotes about drowning puppies actually attributed to a bloke in the USA in 2005, lack of actually speaking to people in the NSW industry and relying on social media.
The frame I read was that while the other states after the 4 corners expose set about putting things in place, NSW just commissioned the review and waited for the outcome.
The credibility of the report is being seriously tested.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Morrigu
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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The New South Wales parliamentary inquiry looked into the use of live baiting in the industry in 2013, but Greyhound Racing NSW says it was shocked by the revelations on Four Corners this week.
The revelations, while disturbing, are not new to NSW Shooters and Fishers MP Robert Borsak who chaired a parliamentary inquiry into greyhound racing in NSW in 2013.
ROBERT BORSAK: I think the problem is that that organisation is not under control of the Government and part of that problem also then follows in that it's a very closed industry.
It's very very difficult for anyone from the outside to get on the board to see what's actually going on it there and something needs to be done about that.
http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2015/s4182295.htm
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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Quote: | THE case for Premier Mike Bairds greyhound ban has been dramatically undermined after it emerged that graphic evidence used to justify the shutdown was more than 10 years old and had nothing to do with NSW.
Errors have also been found in calculations in the report, adding to the seven mistakes and amendments that have already been acknowledged by its author, former High Court judge Michael McHugh.
And in a further blow to the documents credibility, the report cites research carried out by an animal rights group, partly via social media and personal contacts of the research team, who questioned only a small number of people in NSW.
Mr McHughs chilling report into the NSW greyhound industry is being used as the state governments central justification for wiping out the sport from next July.
But a dog breeder who makes a highly emotive claim that he drowned surplus puppies right at the start of the document is actually from the US and was speaking prior to 2005.
Mr McHugh linked the breeders quotes to shocking claims that up to 40 per cent of greyhounds born in NSW never make it to the racetrack and up to 68,448 were killed over 12 years because they werent up to scratch.
The report reads: The evidence shows that 40 per cent of those greyhounds whelped never make it to the racetrack. As one breeder stated, Dogs who dont have the instinct [to chase] or the tools to be a consistent winner, well a good handler can spot it a mile away ... most of the time Id drown the pups.
But the man being quoted was not a NSW breeder he was an American called Ernie operating in the US.
Mr McHugh sourced the quote from a 2015 report by the Working Dog Alliance Australia, which failed to point out where Ernie was from.
The quote was originally printed by Canadian-based academics in a 2005 report about the US greyhound industry. It appeared Ernies reference to drowning puppies may refer to a period well prior to 2005.
The Canadian academics have acknowledged their ideological position as supporters of animal rights.
Other flaws in the McHugh report include a table of data comparing the number of dogs officially named in NSW to those making it to the racetrack that is based on incorrect percentage calculations.
Earlier this week, Mr McHugh retracted his claim that a slimmed-down greyhound industry a key measure that may have reduced the number of greyhound deaths was not financially sustainable.
Mr McHughs report also cites a survey of fewer than 2500 people many of whom were found on social media or were personal contacts of the research team to back up its assertion that large sections of the industry would resist positive changes.
Of the small number of people questioned, only 15 per cent were members of the greyhound racing industry. And only 35 per cent lived in NSW.
Nonetheless, it tended to confirm what other evidence before the commission has indicated, the report says. That sections of the industry, perhaps large sections, are hostile to change that is necessary, if the industry is to continue.
Mr McHugh did not respond to a request for comment last night. Mr Baird insisted the report looked at the global greyhound industry and said Mr McHughs reputation was unblemished and of the highest order.
The report recommends only Parliament consider a ban and offers recommendations for reform, which the government dismissed. Opposition Leader Luke Foley said the doubts raised about the justification for the ban confirmed the need for the government to hit the pause button.
There needs to be a sensible debate on improving animal welfare standards without destroying the livelihoods of decent people who have done nothing wrong, he said. |
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/gaping-holes-in-flawed-greyhound-report/news-story/415a3dca32b0d0959f339365dd726c48
There's 3 sides to every story, 4 if you ask P4S.
I don't have a dog in this fight (no pun intended) but lets not believe everything just because we agree with it.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Morrigu
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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