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LEBRON JAMES!!!!! GOAT!

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5 from the wing on debut 



Joined: 27 May 2016


PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:36 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Larry Bird knew how to get the better of Jordan. I don't know how what he said to Jordan at the end of the golf scene in Spacejam managed to get past the censors at that time.
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Presti35 Virgo

Dick Lee for Legend Status


Joined: 05 Oct 2001
Location: London, England

PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:42 pm
Post subject: Re: LEBRON JAMES!!!!! GOAT!Reply with quote

There is the possibility that I am talking with some bias to Jordan, as I am a Chicago Bulls fan. I have American relatives and my Uncle sent us out some stuff for Christmas in 1987 or 88. My brother got a Larry Bird t-shirt and I got a MJ t-shirt. Thatís when my brother became a Celtics supporter and I a Bulls supporter. (I will say that Pippen was actually my favourite player, not MJ). Since last August, Iíve been living over in London and this past finals is the first I havenít been able to watch live for years! Sad

E wrote:
its 4 out of 7 dude so you were wrong right out of the gate.


I never was any good at maths. Yes he has been in 7 series and won 3. I donít know where I got the extra one from?

E wrote:
Listing the starting 5 of each team doesnít make them great.


True, maybe listing all those teams was a bit much (I had a fun time doing it tho). I guess I was trying to respond to the claim he hasnít beaten anyone. There are plenty of MVP, All-Star, Olympic, 60+ win teams there. There are plenty of teams/players that were good enough to win a title that didnít because of Jordan/Bulls. I just didnít like that you said he beat nobody.

E wrote:
None of those teams went 73-9 and possessed that years' UNANIMOUS MVP (Curry).


Well no, but MJ was on the 70+ win team. (I know this can add to the argument that MJ was simply on the better team). MJ still faced that seasons MVPís in finals. No they were not unanimous, but if MJ wasnít facing the MVP in the finals, he was the actual MVP himself. And surly youíd think Durant and James would get a vote in the MVP race this year.

I know this Warriors team is very good. I just donít think they are as good as their 73 win season suggests. Of course this is just an opinion, but I do think that the 90s Bulls would beat the Warriors and I also think that the 90s Jazz teams would beat the Warriors. In the end, I was glad that Cleveland beat them. And MJ did beat teams that were close to 70 wins, there were a few that had 60+ and some around 67, I could be wrong on that number though.

E wrote:
the three point shooting champ (Thompson).


3-point champ? Meh. Tim Legler was a 3-point champ. Thompson is a gun tho. An All-Star.

E wrote:
an All-star (Green)


Im not a huge fan of Green. But yes, he was an all-star this year.

E wrote:
an Olympian and reigning playoff MVP (Iguodala)


Always been a fan of his. I have his Nuggets jersey lying round somewhere lol. Why was he the reigning Finals MVP again?

E wrote:
Finally, Jordan never won anything without Scottie Pippen and most of his six championship teams were stacked with talent much as GSW are (and had the GOAT coach in his prime). You make a silly point that he never lost in the finals, but what that fails to acknowledge (even though you point out later without even realizing it), the best teams of MJs generation were actually in the east.


Maybe. With, I think, the exception of 93, 97 and 98.

E wrote:
So while Michael lost plenty of playoff series (including multiple times against the Pistons), they occurred earlier in the playoffs than the finals. LeBron has played his entire career against the West so when he faced the equivalent of the Pistons, it was in the finals rather than in the ECF.)


Its all confusing when we are talking like this, but I think I get what youíre saying. Would James still make all those finals if he was playing in the West for most of his career? Maybe, but def not 7 times.

I think James best wins (non-finals) were against Chicago and Boston when the Bulls held the best record of the season and the Celtics after they had won a title.

E wrote:
Not sure that this proves MJ was more clutch because he was a loser earlier.


Again, it depends if we are talking age wise or years in the league wise.

E wrote:
NO way MJ takes Lebron's first team to the Finals.


The 2007 team?

Lets have a look. The rest of his starting team: Gooden, Ilgauskas, Pavlović, Hughes. Its not too bad, Pav is garbage tho.

And the rest of the team: Gibson, Polard, Snow, Brown, Jones, Marshall, Verajaou. Gee I see what you're saying. Marshall was ok in his younger days. But its not a great overall supporting cast.

Maybe youíre right, add a Pippen or a Wade to that line up and they could have gone all the way? They did really well to get past the Pistons, but they were never going to beat that Spurs team. (Dallas should have done more that year, 67 wins and knocked out by GSW (8th seed)).

LBJ was 22 when this took place. He was in his 4th season in the pros. Jordan at 22 was in his second year and finished 8th where the eventual champion Celtics took them out in 3.

I donít know. Could MJ take that 07 Cavs team to the finals? Could LBJ take the 85 Bulls team higher up the ladder, or win a game against the Celtics? I donít think itís a clear cut answer.

E wrote:
NO way MJ takes Cleveland of last year to the finals. He always had a healthy Scottie Pippen and a great team behind him. Well that's all we remember because before Scottie Pippen became a first team All world player, MJ did nothing but lose.


It is true that before Pippen was on the team, that MJ didnít win many playoff games. He kept running into the Celtics and was swept mostly.

Again, would LBJ take those pre 88 Bulls teams further into the playoffs?

And donít forget that James had Wade and Bosh in Miami and Irving and Love in Cleveland. And James has won and lost with these guys.

I think Jordan would take this years Cavs into the finals. Its not like Irving is not an all-star calibre player. Take Irving out and would James still get the Cavs over the line? I guess what Im trying to say is that I donít think itís a clear cut ďNo WayĒ.

And there is the fact that Jordan made the playoffs every year he was with Chicago. James missed the playoffs for his first 2 seasons. (But James was still only 19-20).

Side Note: Pippen was healthy in most of the Jordan playoff/finals series. But in 1998 I think it was, Pippen did his back and missed a lot of game time/played miserably. MJ won 6 finals MVPís which is astounding. (Although, I am of the opinion that Pippen should have won at least one of those MVPs (96 or 97)). (The other thing I'd like to say about Pippen, is that for some time it felt like I was defending how good he was as a player. People would always say he was over-rated and things like that. I'm not saying this about you E, Im just saying that some people now argue that he was a good player just to suit their argument in bringing Jordan down. I think Pippen was exceptional and MJ would probably not have 6 shiny rings without him).

I think MJ did a lot to credit his name later in his career. He was still the best player in the league at 35. If JBL stays fit, he should play past 35 and if he keeps performing on the big stage, well then it will be extremely hard to put him behind Jordan.

E wrote:
We can agree to disagree. Michael Jordan was my absolute idol growing up. He is not the basketball player that LeBron James has become.


Yeah thatís fair enough. There is nothing absurd with suggesting that James is better than Jordan, or vice-versa. Completely respect your view and you have made some excellent points. I hope I haven't come across as some argumentative fool.

At this stage, I still have MJ in front. But if LeBron wins a few more titles and another MVP or two, then it will be even harder to argue. But I do hope he runs into some tougher opposition in the East. The Celtics could become a problem if they can get a quality free agent. The Bulls look in bad shape and the Knicks, well who knows if Rose will work out there. Will be interesting to see where Durant goes, hopefully not the Warriors.

Threes plenty of facts that can be twisted in favour of either player. EG: Jordan was in his 7th season when he won his first title. James was in his 9th. But Jordan was 28 years old, whereas James was 27. The other factor when comparing stats is that James went straight in from high school and skipped college. MJ of course won an NCAA title before being drafted a few years older than James was. And of course that Jordan missed a season and a half when he retired.

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Presti35 Virgo

Dick Lee for Legend Status


Joined: 05 Oct 2001
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:44 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

5 from the wing on debut wrote:
Larry Bird knew how to get the better of Jordan. I don't know how what he said to Jordan at the end of the golf scene in Spacejam managed to get past the censors at that time.


I did have one friend on facebook ask what James has to do to become better than MJ. My smug answer was to make a Space Jam film. Razz (Which is apparently happening by the way).

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Presti35 Virgo

Dick Lee for Legend Status


Joined: 05 Oct 2001
Location: London, England

PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 6:09 am
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Last night LBJ dropped one of the best games if his career.

44 points, 17-24 FG, 5-10 threes, 10 assists, and 9 rebounds.

And it was done in that god awful Cavs jersey from the late 80s. But it was the Cavs jersey i knew growing up.

He has now also become the first player in history with 27,000 points, 7,000 rebounds & 7,000 assists.

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Presti35 Virgo

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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 7:09 pm
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2 wins away from another Finals birth.

Cant see Celtics winning 1 game, let alone 4.

The debate will be raging again.

On the flip side, the debate about the Warriors being better then the 90's Bulls will also rise in the next week. (They're also 2 wins away from a finals birth).

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King Monkey 



Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Location: On a journey to seek the scriptures of enlightenment....

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:18 pm
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The last 2:45 of game 3 has ended any arguments over Jordan vs LeBron.
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Presti35 Virgo

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:59 pm
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^^ What happened?
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King Monkey 



Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Location: On a journey to seek the scriptures of enlightenment....

PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 8:20 pm
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^2:45 to go in game 3, 0-2 down in the series, lose that game and it's basically over.
LBJ - 0 points in that 2:45.

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Presti35 Virgo

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 5:44 pm
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Ah I see.

Well since the Cavs loss, there has been little fanfare about the LBJ/MJ debate.

Strangely, the GSW/90's Bulls debate has also been cold.

At 32, LBJ still has some years in the tank. He'll work his way higher into the top 10 scorers of all time, amongst other records. Keep in mind he'll play more seasons than MJ.

But it'll be easier to call this once LeBron has retired. You'd have to admit that he at least deserves to be in the conversation, but I do think he needs to get at least one more ring. (3 is still a lot more than many other greats).

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Presti35 Virgo

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 3:52 pm
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Interesting Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dw79DuWQ4Z8

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