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| Nathan Buckley: what should the club do with him? |
| Sack him now and pay him out |
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18% |
[ 28 ] |
| Sack him at season's end and pay him out |
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14% |
[ 22 ] |
| Wait and see until season's end, then review (inclined to sack) |
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14% |
[ 22 ] |
| Wait and see until season's end, then review (inclined to keep) |
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17% |
[ 26 ] |
| Keep him until mid-season 2017, then reassess |
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5% |
[ 9 ] |
| Keep him until end of 2017, then reassess |
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17% |
[ 27 ] |
| Back him for as long as it takes! All We Can Be with NCB! |
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9% |
[ 15 ] |
| Other (please outline in the thread) |
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1% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 151 |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | Of course they're all upgrades - that's why the team is performing so splendidly on the field. I get it. |
Take a breath P4s. If you read the bottom line of my post you'll see where I believe we have deteriorated - in the ruck and up forward. Those are key areas, which need urgent addressing if we are to significantly improve. |
I agree, RB. Of these, I think the ruck has been by far the most important. Malthouse had a superb team which could not get over the line until he replaced Cameron Wood and Guy Richards with Darren Jolly. In the modern game with the forward press, Few teams can survive repeatedly losing centre clearances. And if your ruckman is continually beaten at centre bounces you will struggle to win clearances. I hear the stuff about roving to the opposition ruckman but that only works if he is not winning taps clearly. If you can predict where the ball is going to go then no opponent is going to be able to stop you. Yesterday's first quarter was an object lesson in that.
Look, Malthouse is a damn fine coach with a proven record. But he took over Carlton and it was still a rabble. Success equals talent plus patience plus, yes, coaching. As long as the coach is solid in the basics of leadership - giving clear instructions, giving honest feedback, making hard decisions - then talent plus patience is probably enough. The stuff about game plans is over-rated. Most teams play with the same plan nowadays, more or less, with minor variations.
We have a lot of the talent, I think. We need patience. We can clearly beat some of the best sides in the competition, and i think we will start to do so more regularly next year. Am i certain ? Of course not. But the probability is rising as the shared experience grows and the talent we do have develops.
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Two more flags before I die!
Last edited by Mugwump on Mon Jul 25, 2016 7:56 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Hiss 
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Location: Geelong
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| Post subject: Yes | |
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These are the most boring uninspiring years in the history of our club! McGuire disgusts me. I can't live with myself to think I was so gullible in 1999 to vote for him . Buckley just bores my senseless . Collingwood as a club treats fans like me as dumb garbage. Well you turds, you ain't getting my money anymore until we get some spark back into the most path to football department in living memory. I now find myself watching other teams play each other just to see some decent footy. This coach must go now along with most of that football department and only if God is on our side will the President go too!
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I love this club and I hold anyone in contempt who does not think it is worth fighting for. |
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Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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Our age profile suggests our premiership window opens at the end of the decade. I never bought into the idea that we would win premierships or at least contend by 2017.
The club's internal expectations have been too high for my liking. I understand the need to be optimistic and to motivate supporters to sign up as members and attend matches but at the same time we've overrated ourselves and haven't been realistic about our short-term prospects.
I don't think Buckley is the answer for the long-term, but regardless of what I think or anyone else for that matter, I think he will be coaching in 2017, but after a thorough off-season review and with the internal expectation that he needs to play finals next year with no more excuses.
Buckley himself said that he expected us to be a finals team in 2017 from memory, so the pressure is on plus I can't see the club being silly enough to renew his contract again beyond 2017 unless significant improvement is demonstrated or are they?
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| 1902 | 1903 | 1910 | 1917 | 1919 | 1927 | 1928 | 1929 | 1930 | 1935 | 1936 | 1953 | 1958 | 1990 | 2010 | 2023 | |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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^ i think that's right, Jezza. The rebuild needs to bear fruit in 2017 or it'll be over for Buckley. Barring another horror run with injuries, I think it will bear fruit as the many youngsters start to flower. If you had told me at the start of the year that we would be missing two of our stars in Jamie Elliott and Swanny all year, I'd probably have predicted that we'd be finishing about where we are.
I take great hope from the Geelong and GWS games, where we have shown that we can beat sides that are in the top 4 or 5. If we can stop the slow starts caused by centre clearance thrashings (largely caused by Grundy's tendency to mistime his centre bounces at the start of games, probably nerves and over-eagerness) i think we can beat anyone when near full strength.
Big improvement years from Scharenberg, Aish and DeGoey would really help, though.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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The Boy Who Cried Wolf
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Location: We prefer free speech - you know it's right
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| Mugwump wrote: | ^ i think that's right, Jezza. The rebuild needs to bear fruit in 2017 or it'll be over for Buckley. Barring another horror run with injuries, I think it will bear fruit as the many youngsters start to flower. If you had told me at the start of the year that we would be missing two of our stars in Jamie Elliott and Swanny all year, I'd probably have predicted that we'd be finishing about where we are.
I take great hope from the Geelong and GWS games, where we have shown that we can beat sides that are in the top 4 or 5. If we can stop the slow starts caused by centre clearance thrashings (largely caused by Grundy's tendency to mistime his centre bounces at the start of games, probably nerves and over-eagerness) i think we can beat anyone when near full strength.
Big improvement years from Scharenberg, Aish and DeGoey would really help, though. |
Richmond last year beat 3 of the top 4 last year in the Dawks, Sydney and Fremantle - look at em this year... the Geelong and GWS wins translate to nothing. |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| The Boy Who Cried Wolf wrote: | | Mugwump wrote: | ^ i think that's right, Jezza. The rebuild needs to bear fruit in 2017 or it'll be over for Buckley. Barring another horror run with injuries, I think it will bear fruit as the many youngsters start to flower. If you had told me at the start of the year that we would be missing two of our stars in Jamie Elliott and Swanny all year, I'd probably have predicted that we'd be finishing about where we are.
I take great hope from the Geelong and GWS games, where we have shown that we can beat sides that are in the top 4 or 5. If we can stop the slow starts caused by centre clearance thrashings (largely caused by Grundy's tendency to mistime his centre bounces at the start of games, probably nerves and over-eagerness) i think we can beat anyone when near full strength.
Big improvement years from Scharenberg, Aish and DeGoey would really help, though. |
Richmond last year beat 3 of the top 4 last year in the Dawks, Sydney and Fremantle - look at em this year... the Geelong and GWS wins translate to nothing. |
Nice to find a fact in something you posted. You may be right that our few victories are not significant. I think the quality of our emerging talent is a lot deeper than Richmond, who rely too heavily on their ageing stars, amd i think we are on a growth and development path, and nowhere near our peak as they were last year. But we shall see. I am prepared to concede that if we do mot make finals in 2017 then Buckley has to go, as the rebuild needs to be yielding something by then.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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| BEAMER09 wrote: | Personally I think we have the list. I just don't think we have the coaches.
An addition or two to the list won't hurt but the current list is A OK... |
It is a fine side but the real quality is still too young. In 2 years, this list will be a strong list.
In reality, although i know that Moore, De Goey, Aish, Maynard, Adams, Crisp and the like are going to be great players, they just dont do it for long enough at this time.
I think i'd also like for Elliot, Ramsey and Swan to be back on the park as well.
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Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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| BEAMER09 wrote: | Personally I think we have the list. I just don't think we have the coaches.
An addition or two to the list won't hurt but the current list is A OK... |
It is a fine side but the real quality is still too young. In 2 years, this list will be a strong list.
In reality, although i know that Moore, De Goey, Aish, Maynard, Adams, Crisp and the like are going to be great players, they just dont do it for long enough at this time.
I think i'd also like for Elliot, Ramsey and Swan to be back on the park as well.
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Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| BEAMER09 wrote: | Personally I think we have the list. I just don't think we have the coaches.
An addition or two to the list won't hurt but the current list is A OK... |
Yep
I'm not pessimistic by nature, but I just can't see how this turns around.
Our skills level is deplorable, so is our decision making, and its not just the young players. Why?
Something is not translating.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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GreekLunatic
Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Location: doncaster vic australia
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| its finals or bust next year for bucks we cant be out of the finals 4 years in a row |
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jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| E wrote: | | BEAMER09 wrote: | Personally I think we have the list. I just don't think we have the coaches.
An addition or two to the list won't hurt but the current list is A OK... |
It is a fine side but the real quality is still too young. In 2 years, this list will be a strong list.
In reality, although i know that Moore, De Goey, Aish, Maynard, Adams, Crisp and the like are going to be great players, they just dont do it for long enough at this time.
I think i'd also like for Elliot, Ramsey and Swan to be back on the park as well. |
Yep this. Wells cut us apart Friday night but it was Swallow and in particular Cunnington on the inside that did the real damage winning the contested footy and putting it out to Wells. Cunnington is now approaching 25 and 150 games and starting to deliver consistently on all the junior promise. I'd actually say that our kids like Treloar, Adams, De Goey, and Crisp are performing better than he did at a similar stage of his career.
http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=13&playerStatus2=A&tid2=5&type=A&pid1=3318&pid2=3791&fid1=O&fid2=O
http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=13&playerStatus2=A&tid2=5&type=A&pid1=3318&pid2=3651&fid1=O&fid2=O
http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=13&playerStatus2=A&tid2=5&type=A&pid1=3318&pid2=4043&fid1=O&fid2=O
http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=13&playerStatus2=A&tid2=5&type=A&pid1=3318&pid2=3738&fid1=O&fid2=O
And there you go, Crisp is the only one he'd be ahead of at the same age. |
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The Boy Who Cried Wolf
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Location: We prefer free speech - you know it's right
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| Mugwump wrote: | | The Boy Who Cried Wolf wrote: | | Mugwump wrote: | ^ i think that's right, Jezza. The rebuild needs to bear fruit in 2017 or it'll be over for Buckley. Barring another horror run with injuries, I think it will bear fruit as the many youngsters start to flower. If you had told me at the start of the year that we would be missing two of our stars in Jamie Elliott and Swanny all year, I'd probably have predicted that we'd be finishing about where we are.
I take great hope from the Geelong and GWS games, where we have shown that we can beat sides that are in the top 4 or 5. If we can stop the slow starts caused by centre clearance thrashings (largely caused by Grundy's tendency to mistime his centre bounces at the start of games, probably nerves and over-eagerness) i think we can beat anyone when near full strength.
Big improvement years from Scharenberg, Aish and DeGoey would really help, though. |
Richmond last year beat 3 of the top 4 last year in the Dawks, Sydney and Fremantle - look at em this year... the Geelong and GWS wins translate to nothing. |
Nice to find a fact in something you posted. You may be right that our few victories are not significant. I think the quality of our emerging talent is a lot deeper than Richmond, who rely too heavily on their ageing stars, amd i think we are on a growth and development path, and nowhere near our peak as they were last year. But we shall see. I am prepared to concede that if we do mot make finals in 2017 then Buckley has to go, as the rebuild needs to be yielding something by then. |
I'll also have to agree to that even though our list has a bit of repetitiveness to it, I'd rather have our then theirs (with maybe the exception of Jack Riewoldt, played as a pure forward). |
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Lone Ranger
Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Location: Macedon Ranges
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| Mugwump wrote: |
Yep, 5 points better than hawthorn in 2011 and 40 points worse than Geelong. Then, the next year, 40 points worse than Hawthorn and 16 worse than Sydney. I think the pattern was prettty clear. Thomas, L Brown Jolly, Ball Davis Johnson Didak all near the end. Heritier starring in his own political comedy. The big killer, i think, was Jolly. Winning sides need seasoned and winning ruckmen. It was Jolly that gave us 2010's victory but he was cooked soon after. |
2011 team was better than 2010 even though we didnt win the flag. 20-2 for the home and away!!!
The football world was talking about a dynasty because we were so young.
So you are saying the 20-2 season was the peak, and from that moment on we dropped away. The fact that this was when Buckley started was a complete coincidence. Its all down to a small number of older players retiring over the next few years.
That fact that we declined steadily for the following years still isnt his fault.
Here we are 5 years later and still no improvment but thats just bad luck and injuries.
Can anyone point to one positive thing under Bucks? Just one. I genuinely cant see any.
Loved the bloke as a player but looking at his coaching objectively, everything says 5 years of failure with no sign things are going to improve.
Clearly we are keeping him so PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE let me be wrong. Ive been saying that for a couple of years now though. |
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piedys
Heeeeeeere's Dyso!!!
Joined: 04 Sep 2003
Location: Resident Forum Psychopath since 2003
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| Lone Ranger wrote: | Can anyone point to one positive thing under Bucks? Just one. I genuinely cant see any.
Loved the bloke as a player but looking at his coaching objectively, everything says 5 years of failure with no sign things are going to improve. |
That's it in a nutshell - we loved him as a player, and on-field leader.
Probably the same way Brisbane loved Voss, and the Dons loved Hird.
All the most brilliant, elite players, with impeccable disposal and Brownlow medalists as well.
And not one of them could coach for shit.
It was tried, it has failed. Time to cut our losses and move on.
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M I L L A N E 4 2 forever |
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Redlight
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
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| Lone Ranger wrote: | 2011 team was better than 2010 even though we didnt win the flag. 20-2 for the home and away!!!
The football world was talking about a dynasty because we were so young.
So you are saying the 20-2 season was the peak, and from that moment on we dropped away. The fact that this was when Buckley started was a complete coincidence. Its all down to a small number of older players retiring over the next few years.
That fact that we declined steadily for the following years still isnt his fault.
Here we are 5 years later and still no improvment but thats just bad luck and injuries.
Can anyone point to one positive thing under Bucks? Just one. I genuinely cant see any.
Loved the bloke as a player but looking at his coaching objectively, everything says 5 years of failure with no sign things are going to improve.
Clearly we are keeping him so PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE let me be wrong. Ive been saying that for a couple of years now though. |
Our decline since 2011 hasn't been down to a 'small number of older players' retiring at all. In 2012 we lost Ball, Krak, Keefe and McCaffer to season ending knee injuries. Jolly, Brown, Tarrant and Daisy all missed periods, Ben Johnson had a shoulder reco, Marley Williams did his shoulder too, Ben Reid struggled with injuries that year. Swan and Shaw missed footy.
Is Buckley a good coach? I don't know, but those claiming that he can't coach shouldn't just conveniently ignore the circumstances that he's been confronted with. |
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