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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
Can't argue with that.
Good Collingwood CHF's who put a few seasons together are thin on the ground in the last 40 years. It's basically throw a blanket over Cloke and Rocca and then daylight, night time and daylight again.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Jezza 
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | Both wonderful players. Both, as it happens, divided Collingwood supporters. The criticism at the ground levelled at Ant by members every time he couldn't manage a 25 disposal, 30 hitouts (25 to advantage), 5 goal game was, quite frankly, sickening. In fact, he, Travis and Chris Tarrant have that in common.
If one had to choose between the 2, I suppose I'd choose Rocca - at his peak, he posed a ridiculous matchup problem for the opposition: he was quick for his size (eg, that diagonal run from the far wing to CHF against Port in the 2002 final), a brilliant field kick when he was up the ground, our best ruckman by some considerable margin (not that he had much opposition on that score), the best contested mark at our club and a huge threat kicking for goal from well outside the 50 metre arc. Because he was, in effect, 2 players in 1, he dominated the opposition's defensive planning. Unfortunately, his absence was so hard to cover that Collingwood was never going to be competitive without him in the 2003 GF. It's a pity that, for most of his career, he was an elite player in a team that had too few.
If I had to choose a player just as a KPF, though, it would have to be Cloke. Collingwood has not fielded a better CHF in my lifetime. Cloke is not my favourite Collingwood CHF - Carman was a magician (the most talented player I ever saw on a field) and Rocca was my favourite "current" player until Heater came on the scene - but history will show that he was the best Collingwood CHF of the lot for length of service, durability and consistent high-quality performance (except when kicking for goal). |
Good summation of both players.
They're very difficult to split. Statistically, Cloke slightly edges Rocca but Rocca's flare and x-factor makes him more appealing. Perception wise, I think Rocca stood up more than Cloke did in the big finals games.
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duke750
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: Buderim QLD
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Tough choice. Rocco didn't have a big tank but he was an awesome long kick. Cloke's running endurance was great. They both were better shots for goal from 50 rather than 10. Cloke's goal kicking woes have been well documented elsewhere on Nicks, and Rocca could miss badly from only a few metres. All things considered, I would probably choose Rocca.
A couple of observations about both of them in GFs:
Rocca had a great game in 2002, but THAT kick in the last qtr needed to go over the goal umpire's head, not near or over the post.
Rocca would have made a difference in 2003, but unfortunately he joined Phil Carmen and Jason Cloke in Collingwood notoriety as suspended players unable to play in a GF. 2 years in a row was bad luck for MM.
Cloke could have had the first 2010 GF won by half time had he kicked straight, but he did kick the one that put us ahead late before that last StK point. He was very quiet in the replay, although Swan cost him a goal in the first minute (although I don't know why Cloke didn't play on since he was 5m out running toward goal) and Wellingham stole his pass late in the game...
Cloke kicked goals from the railway tracks and beyond in the first qtr of 2011 but then missed set shots later in the game when they really needed to be slotted.
Interesting observation that we haven't had good CHFs apart from these 2. Imagine how good the 1990 or 1970 sides would have been with great focal points. A lot of the really good sides over the past 40-50 years have had great players at CHF, players such as Hart, Maclure, Brereton, Carey, Brown...
I have felt over the past 5 or so years that MM and Bucks forgot that Travis won his Copeland as a true CHF, and that he has been played too close to the goal square. Back in form, as a running marking target up the ground Travis would be an acquisition to our 2016 side.
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Magpies forever.
First Colligwood game: Western Oval 1960 |
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Big T
Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Location: Torino, Italy
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Trav played in better teams
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Buon Giorno |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Tell me more about your sensed there was something fragile about his personality. |
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Invigoration
Joined: 22 Sep 2010
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Trav's best was ahead of Rocca's by a far margin in my opinion.
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Brown re his GF omission:
"It’s not about me & it never has been. It’s about the team & it’s about Collingwood & it’s about the 22 other blokes out there on the park. That’s all that matters to me" |
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eddiesmith
Lets get ready to Rumble
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Location: Lexus Centre
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| Cloke by the length of the Flemington straight, but there are some on Nicks atm who would probably say Guy Richards was better than Cloke! |
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piedys
Heeeeeeere's Dyso!!!
Joined: 04 Sep 2003
Location: Resident Forum Psychopath since 2003
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Good spotting Skids - I knew we'd done this thread before.
Mods - please merge them...
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M I L L A N E 4 2 forever |
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inxs88
Joined: 17 Aug 2014
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| piedys wrote: |
Good spotting Skids - I knew we'd done this thread before.
Mods - please merge them... |
Gee, it sounds like all bloggers need to do some "Marty McFly" back in time work before posting anything........ One might think that the extra 3 years since 2013 make the sample size of Cloke's career far better to compare to Rocca's.
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I love the Pies, hate Carlscum |
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