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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| For the first time all year I don't think there will be any changes for next week's game. We are playing well as a unit, and we need to enjoy a period of stability in our line-up. Sure, Maynard had a few clangers and Crocker was relatively quiet, but they each played an important role and I'd like to see us stick with them for the time being. |
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Woods 
Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Location: Melbourne
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| John Wren wrote: | | disagree about the need to demonstrate sensational form. he needs to show that he can do what the coach and team needs him to do. it's up to the coaching group to determine when he has satisfied that requirement. playing next week might be premature but it's not an unreasonable suggestion given the deteriorating state of the welfare's backline. we also have a vfl bye next week so playing him in the afl could be the tonic he needs. |
Cloke needs to show sensational form in the VFL before he comes back into the seniors because the seniors are currently in sensational form.
Understand that key elements of the playing group will not play hard with a dead weight in the forward line like Cloke. Collingwood is not a sheltered workshop its AFL footy.
Ask yourself why, all of a sudden, players like Greenwood, Crisp, DeGoey are on fire and putting themselves in physical danger by playing the hard, tough footy they need to for Collingwood to win.
You bring Cloke in now and these players will effectively mutiny, as they have done until the last two rounds when (and it is glaringly no coincidence) Cloke was demoted to the VFL.
No, the playing group will not abide Cloke's return until the sheer quality of his perforance demands it.
Cloke will be listed as emergency against the Dogs but will not play unless injury to others requires it. |
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John Wren 
"Look after the game. It means so much to so many."
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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^ yeah, nah. cloke will come back when the selection committee deems it appropriate. it won't be dictated by the playing group.
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Purveyor of sanctimonious twaddle. |
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Woods
Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Location: Melbourne
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| John Wren wrote: | | ^ yeah, nah. cloke will come back when the selection committee deems it appropriate. it won't be dictated by the playing group. |
It is being dictated by the playing group. It began in the preseason when Cloke was chucked out of the leadership group.
Cloke's decline in form and demotion to the VFL is the result of Elliot's long-term absence due to injury. Elliot has shown himself as the only player who can regularly feed Cloke the ball in a manner that he can mark it. This for a few seasons now has allowed Cloke to bag a few goals a match and thus keep his place in the seniors. Now that Elliot's gone Cloke has been exposed as incapable of marking unless spoon-fed by a elite kick like Elliot.
The players I mentioned are among other recruits who have come to Collingwood because they want to play finals and hopefully contend for a flag. They know that is never going to happen with Cloke playing in his current poor form. So they have forced the issue. This should be starkly apparent to all students of the club. How else can you explain the remarkable change in performance of the last two weeks?
Cloke in, we lose - Cloke out, we win. |
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Jezza 
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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| Woods wrote: | The players I mentioned are among other recruits who have come to Collingwood because they want to play finals and hopefully contend for a flag. They know that is never going to happen with Cloke playing in his current poor form. So they have forced the issue. This should be starkly apparent to all students of the club. How else can you explain the remarkable change in performance of the last two weeks?
Cloke in, we lose - Cloke out, we win. |
I don't think our form reversal has much to do with Cloke's exclusion from the team and is a largely a cause of a combination of factors.
Cloke hasn't played since round 4 and we weren't exactly setting the world on fire after that either.
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| Jezza wrote: | | Woods wrote: | The players I mentioned are among other recruits who have come to Collingwood because they want to play finals and hopefully contend for a flag. They know that is never going to happen with Cloke playing in his current poor form. So they have forced the issue. This should be starkly apparent to all students of the club. How else can you explain the remarkable change in performance of the last two weeks?
Cloke in, we lose - Cloke out, we win. |
I don't think our form reversal has much to do with Cloke's exclusion from the team and is a largely a cause of a combination of factors.
Cloke hasn't played since round 4 and we weren't exactly setting the world on fire after that either. |
Our form reversal is due to Pendles being fit, Adams and Varcoe returning, which has lifted some pressure off our 'second string' mids including Greenwood, Crisp and De Goey. Oh, and 'Doodle' has straightened us up. |
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neil 
Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Location: Queensland
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Think Witts is ready to play senior football and can replace Grundy if injured
Can replace Cox as well and is a far better ruckman than Cox
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Carlscum 120 years being cheating scum |
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jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| John Wren wrote: | | ^ yeah, nah. cloke will come back when the selection committee deems it appropriate. it won't be dictated by the playing group. |
Exactly. Not sure how anyone can come to the conclusion that selection is player driven or that the inclusion of Cloke would equate to a reduced effort from the player group. |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| ^^^ This site is full of inveterate Cloke-haters. Nick's seems never to have recovered fully from Cloke re-signing with Collingwood twice when his was the most in-demand signature in the country. It's as if people got so cross about the "certainty" of him leaving that it was a tragic anti-climax for them when he stayed and remained the dominant tall forward in the game for years. |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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Doubt there will be many if any changes this week. Crocker and Maynard would be under pressure.
Replacements even harder to determine. Will be serious thought given to promoting Cloke but if the club decides he still needs more VFL then that'll be at least another 2 weeks before he's considered given the VFL bye next week.
Witts, Goodyear, Marsh, and Goldsack appear to be guys at VFL level who've put their hands up. |
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Bucks2014
Joined: 15 Feb 2014
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | ^^^ This site is full of inveterate Cloke-haters. Nick's seems never to have recovered fully from Cloke re-signing with Collingwood twice when his was the most in-demand signature in the country. It's as if people got so cross about the "certainty" of him leaving that it was a tragic anti-climax for them when he stayed and remained the dominant tall forward in the game for years. |
I would hate to think that any true supporter would dislike or hate a great servant of the footy club. I disagree that he has been a dominant tall forward for years. IMO he hasn't been this from 2014 onwards. 2011-2013 were his great years and hence the reason for his demand and salary.
In fairness to his 2014-2015 years, I suppose we weren't exactly setting the footy world on fire.
He is the only player I cross my fingers and hope whenever he is kicking for goal. I seem to relax a bit more when he's outside 50.
It's interesting though as I thought that his best maybe behind him, but after seeing White yesterday I clearly have more faith in the big bloke coming back taking plenty of contested marks and crashing packs. On what I saw yesterday in the VFL he looked pretty good.
I hope Clokey can come back and give those number 1 defenders nightmares.
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"Still waiting for your call Caroline ... not a quote in sight. Don't ever presume to speak on Collingwood's behalf," |
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MightyMagpie
Joined: 04 Jun 2013
Location: WA
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If it bleeds you can kill it.
Good opportunity to stamp some authority on this season by backing up after the pussy cats game.
Josh Smith has been good, but after 5 games the selection committee might be thinking about giving him a rest with managed time in the VFL or a straight out rest.
Williams was quiet in VFL, but I could see him coming in for Smith.
Interesting comment by Bucks (I think in the post match presser) that Bulldogs have slowed down their ball movement.
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All We Can Be |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| The Welfare aren't even a scalp, really. There's no reason why Collingwood can't win this one comfortably. |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| Woods wrote: |
You bring Cloke in now and these players will effectively mutiny, as they have done until the last two rounds when (and it is glaringly no coincidence) Cloke was demoted to the VFL.
No, the playing group will not abide Cloke's return until the sheer quality of his perforance demands it. |
Cloke was also missing against Carlton, so i doubt your "mutiny" theory. On the other hand, it may help that we are less one-trick going forward without the big fella there. A spread of goalkickers and scoring options is central to success, and that does partly explain our resurgence, I think.
Still, i would like to try Moore and white (both of whom are fairly mobile and apply tackle pressure) up on a wing, and Cloke and Cox forward. Maybe not this week, but against a side that is struggling such as GC.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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thompsoc
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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Win this and our season really opens up big time.
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we don't eat our own at collingwood we just allow them to foul our nest. |
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