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thompsoc
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| Krakouer Magic wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | IIRC the kid did a massive personal training regime in order to set himself up to be drafted in the first place. The initial damage may well have been done then as it wasn't exactly a program structured by a sports scientist, more like an old fashioned bust a gut/work like buggery then do it again regime.
The change to Davoran trying to increase players endurance capabilities to what was needed to play the current game styles probably didn't help, but like a stress fracture, it's bloody hard to diagnose until it shows real signs by which time it's too late. |
Yep, hard nosed local trainer worked with him. |
Yep I agree its more likely that Elliott's pars defect is directly related to the 9 week training he did with Kevin McFarlane in 2011 before we even drafted him. I say this because sports scientists never get it wrong. Cough cough Essendon... Cough cough stk with Davoran.... Everyone knows the 2014 season was ruined by the training regime. Was it 15 hamstring injuries that year?
My money is not on anything McFarlane did in 2011. Let's just say I don't know for sure, but Im comfortably satisfied (there's a term the sports scientist must love) that Elliott is still paying the long term effects of the 30% increase in training that happend over 13/14. |
You are a legend KM.
You should post more often.
But you probably don't want to get in a constant scrap.
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we don't eat our own at collingwood we just allow them to foul our nest. |
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AnthonyC 
Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
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I spent about 5min searching on Google so that makes me an expert. Umm no it doesn't.
In any case I did learn that apparently genetic predisposition plays a significant role in Spondylolysis. So perhaps Elliot is predisposed, I mean why wouldn't everyone suffer the same fate then that had such a strenuous exercise program?
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Go Pies! |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Krakouer Magic wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | IIRC the kid did a massive personal training regime in order to set himself up to be drafted in the first place. The initial damage may well have been done then as it wasn't exactly a program structured by a sports scientist, more like an old fashioned bust a gut/work like buggery then do it again regime.
The change to Davoran trying to increase players endurance capabilities to what was needed to play the current game styles probably didn't help, but like a stress fracture, it's bloody hard to diagnose until it shows real signs by which time it's too late. |
Yep, hard nosed local trainer worked with him. |
Yep I agree its more likely that Elliott's pars defect is directly related to the 9 week training he did with Kevin McFarlane in 2011 before we even drafted him. I say this because sports scientists never get it wrong. Cough cough Essendon... Cough cough stk with Davoran.... Cough cough Bulldogs with Davoran...
Everyone knows the 2014 season was ruined by the training regime. Was it 15 hamstring injuries that year?
My money is not on anything McFarlane did in 2011. Let's just say I don't know for sure, but Im comfortably satisfied (there's a term the sports scientist must love) that Elliott is still paying the long term effects of the 30% increase in training that happend over 13/14. |
Exactly from where did you pull "9 weeks"? IIRC it was a fair bit longer than that, but feel free to provide a source to prove me wrong.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| Krakouer Magic wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | IIRC the kid did a massive personal training regime in order to set himself up to be drafted in the first place. The initial damage may well have been done then as it wasn't exactly a program structured by a sports scientist, more like an old fashioned bust a gut/work like buggery then do it again regime.
The change to Davoran trying to increase players endurance capabilities to what was needed to play the current game styles probably didn't help, but like a stress fracture, it's bloody hard to diagnose until it shows real signs by which time it's too late. |
Yep, hard nosed local trainer worked with him. |
Yep I agree its more likely that Elliott's pars defect is directly related to the 9 week training he did with Kevin McFarlane in 2011 before we even drafted him. I say this because sports scientists never get it wrong. Cough cough Essendon... Cough cough stk with Davoran.... Cough cough Bulldogs with Davoran...
Everyone knows the 2014 season was ruined by the training regime. Was it 15 hamstring injuries that year?
My money is not on anything McFarlane did in 2011. Let's just say I don't know for sure, but Im comfortably satisfied (there's a term the sports scientist must love) that Elliott is still paying the long term effects of the 30% increase in training that happend over 13/14. |
I have no knowledge that backs my view but as I understand 1 of the common causes of his injury is overarching of the back so I'd look more to his marking than anything else. That's without even considering any genetic predisposition or impact injuries. An increase in running loads may/may not exacerbate that. But that's pure guess work.
Last edited by jackcass on Thu May 19, 2016 10:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Krakouer Magic
Joined: 05 Apr 2011
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| stui magpie wrote: | | Krakouer Magic wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | IIRC the kid did a massive personal training regime in order to set himself up to be drafted in the first place. The initial damage may well have been done then as it wasn't exactly a program structured by a sports scientist, more like an old fashioned bust a gut/work like buggery then do it again regime.
The change to Davoran trying to increase players endurance capabilities to what was needed to play the current game styles probably didn't help, but like a stress fracture, it's bloody hard to diagnose until it shows real signs by which time it's too late. |
Yep, hard nosed local trainer worked with him. |
Yep I agree its more likely that Elliott's pars defect is directly related to the 9 week training he did with Kevin McFarlane in 2011 before we even drafted him. I say this because sports scientists never get it wrong. Cough cough Essendon... Cough cough stk with Davoran.... Cough cough Bulldogs with Davoran...
Everyone knows the 2014 season was ruined by the training regime. Was it 15 hamstring injuries that year?
My money is not on anything McFarlane did in 2011. Let's just say I don't know for sure, but Im comfortably satisfied (there's a term the sports scientist must love) that Elliott is still paying the long term effects of the 30% increase in training that happend over 13/14. |
Exactly from where did you pull "9 weeks"? IIRC it was a fair bit longer than that, but feel free to provide a source to prove me wrong. |
http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/jamie-elliotts-iron-will-to-be-and-beat-the-best-20140514-zrchs.html |
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Cuthbert Collingwood
Once was on fire, now all at sea
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Location: The BBC (Brunswick Bowling Club)
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I cannot believe that you experts have solved the riddle of Jamie's injury, and from your armchairs as well!!!!
Fwiw I heard on the grapevine that Davoren was seen in the vicinity of Bachar Houli last week and also has lived close to Daniel Wells for a while.
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McRae for Governor-General! |
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Krakouer Magic
Joined: 05 Apr 2011
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| thompsoc wrote: | | Krakouer Magic wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | IIRC the kid did a massive personal training regime in order to set himself up to be drafted in the first place. The initial damage may well have been done then as it wasn't exactly a program structured by a sports scientist, more like an old fashioned bust a gut/work like buggery then do it again regime.
The change to Davoran trying to increase players endurance capabilities to what was needed to play the current game styles probably didn't help, but like a stress fracture, it's bloody hard to diagnose until it shows real signs by which time it's too late. |
Yep, hard nosed local trainer worked with him. |
Yep I agree its more likely that Elliott's pars defect is directly related to the 9 week training he did with Kevin McFarlane in 2011 before we even drafted him. I say this because sports scientists never get it wrong. Cough cough Essendon... Cough cough stk with Davoran.... Everyone knows the 2014 season was ruined by the training regime. Was it 15 hamstring injuries that year?
My money is not on anything McFarlane did in 2011. Let's just say I don't know for sure, but Im comfortably satisfied (there's a term the sports scientist must love) that Elliott is still paying the long term effects of the 30% increase in training that happend over 13/14. |
You are a legend KM.
You should post more often.
But you probably don't want to get in a constant scrap. |
Yeah it would appear my views on certain things run against the grain.
Its not to be contrarian. Its just after the last 3 years I'm fed up with what's happened to our great club. What happened to our players in 2014 because of the 30% increase in workload was careless and a train wreck. Shouldn't a sports science dude spend 12 months getting to know the physiology of each player before deciding "yep I know sweet FA about each individual players physiology cause I've just got here but full steam ahead with an extra 40 kms a week running". Isn't that attitude just a little bit careless?
Dispite what others say its cost us Nathan Freeman. Seriously people who leaves Collingwood for StKilda? Maybe Monky and Francis when they were done but a top 10 pick 2 years into his career??? Its unheard of. And I'd say the training in 2013/14 has almost cost Freeman his career.
The 2013/14 training increase wouldn't have helped Elliott at all. You don't load up on a guy who has a history of hammie injuries like that. And certainly if you know Elliott loved pushing himself to the limit surely you shy on the cautionary side. He would have loved "overloading" himself though cause as McFarlane said he loves to train.
But have a look at the long term side effects. Was it worth it? Did ramping up our training so drastically have good results for us? Do Collingwood even seem fitter than most other clubs? I'd say the pies have concrete boots in most of our games this year. Its almost like they got through the preseason and hit the wall. |
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Cuthbert Collingwood
Once was on fire, now all at sea
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Location: The BBC (Brunswick Bowling Club)
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If you bozos need a freaking lesson in logic, here you go:
If Davoren has had a net negative impact at the club in the time that he has been there, he would be out of a job. No matter what your "opinion" is about the guy, there is no way that Buckley and the rest of the coaching staff would let someone destroy the playing group from the inside.
The only possible reason that makes any sense is that they are ALL in a conspiracy to destroy our club - that is essentially the inference you are making. Fortunately the likelihood of this being the case is just about as small as your tiny brains. Over.
_________________
McRae for Governor-General! |
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Krakouer Magic
Joined: 05 Apr 2011
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| Cuthbert Collingwood wrote: | If you bozos need a freaking lesson in logic, here you go:
If Davoren has had a net negative impact at the club in the time that he has been there, he would be out of a job. No matter what your "opinion" is about the guy, there is no way that Buckley and the rest of the coaching staff would let someone destroy the playing group from the inside.
The only possible reason that makes any sense is that they are ALL in a conspiracy to destroy our club - that is essentially the inference you are making. Fortunately the likelihood of this being the case is just about as small as your tiny brains. Over. |
Hmmm who do you think wanted Devoran to up the training loads? Why'd you think our former sport scientist left for Carlton? Could it have been purely because he wanted to work with Malthouse again? Or perhaps there was a ideological difference between coach and high performance manager on how to train the list without hightening the risk of injury?
Read Buckley's book. See how many times he did his hammie primarily cause he went too hard on the training track. Look at Dane Swan. Hardly missed a game till this year. Perhaps a guy like swan knows how to manage his body better than Bucks by not running himself into the ground. I certainly wouldn't be asking Bucks for advice on training methods anytime soon unless I wanted to over do it on the training track all the time and risk soft tissue injuries every other week |
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Cuthbert Collingwood
Once was on fire, now all at sea
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Location: The BBC (Brunswick Bowling Club)
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I understand what you're saying and how you feel, but essentially the message is that Buckley and Davoren are out to destroy the club from within. Simple.
I for one do not believe that Nathan Buckley, one of the greatest servants of our club, would do anything to jeopardise the club, or even in a purely self interested way, his career.
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McRae for Governor-General! |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| Cuthbert Collingwood wrote: | I understand what you're saying and how you feel, but essentially the message is that Buckley and Davoren are out to destroy the club from within. Simple.
I for one do not believe that Nathan Buckley, one of the greatest servants of our club, would do anything to jeopardise the club, or even in a purely self interested way, his career. |
Totally agree but as usual feel that I know what the standard bloody response will be.... 
Again, please tell me when pure logic and such sensible rationality ever worked with this mob??
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Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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thompsoc
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| Cuthbert Collingwood wrote: | If you bozos need a freaking lesson in logic, here you go:
If Davoren has had a net negative impact at the club in the time that he has been there, he would be out of a job. No matter what your "opinion" is about the guy, there is no way that Buckley and the rest of the coaching staff would let someone destroy the playing group from the inside.
The only possible reason that makes any sense is that they are ALL in a conspiracy to destroy our club - that is essentially the inference you are making. Fortunately the likelihood of this being the case is just about as small as your tiny brains. Over. |
What a rubbish statement.
Have you ever considered incompetence and just plain being dumb?
I mean, The greatest leader in the free world went to war in iraq to bring democracy to the poor old muslims.
Was that a conspiracy or just stupidity!
What KM had to say was a reasonable and well written piece.
But as usual the bozo's ( mr Cuthberts slant ) want to howl down anybody who has a different view on things.
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we don't eat our own at collingwood we just allow them to foul our nest. |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Cuthbert Collingwood wrote: | I cannot believe that you experts have solved the riddle of Jamie's injury, and from your armchairs as well!!!!
..... |
Waddya mean?
I just did a course on the web on back surgery, obtained a higher degree from the online university of speculation & I'm ready to operate now.
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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thompsoc
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| watt price tully wrote: | | Cuthbert Collingwood wrote: | I cannot believe that you experts have solved the riddle of Jamie's injury, and from your armchairs as well!!!!
..... |
Waddya mean?
I just did a course on the web on back surgery, obtained a higher degree from the online university of speculation & I'm ready to operate now. |
What a boring and a smart arse statement.
Belittle, put down and just chase down any heretic.
Report any heretics to the "House of Un Collingwood Activities."
it has that whiff of the 1950's about it.
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we don't eat our own at collingwood we just allow them to foul our nest. |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| thompsoc wrote: | | watt price tully wrote: | | Cuthbert Collingwood wrote: | I cannot believe that you experts have solved the riddle of Jamie's injury, and from your armchairs as well!!!!
..... |
Waddya mean?
I just did a course on the web on back surgery, obtained a higher degree from the online university of speculation & I'm ready to operate now. |
What a boring and a smart arse statement.
Belittle, put down and just chase down any heretic.
Report any heretics to the "House of Un Collingwood Activities."
it has that whiff of the 1950's about it. |
Spending too much time on the net are we?
Thompsoc, you need to get out more & smell the roses.
Yours & others views here is opinion based on speculation. Unless you've done a sophisticated path analysis or something similar to determine actual causation the rest is speculation.
You can't prove what you've speculated to be fact.
However, you can do the same online course as me  
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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