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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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DAMN, we cannot take a trick, mass injuries have stuffed our season ,good ans proper. May as well write it off, use it as a development year. SIGH.
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Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| Piesnchess wrote: | | DAMN, we cannot take a trick, mass injuries have stuffed our season ,good ans proper. May as well write it off, use it as a development year. SIGH. |
I blame Bucks.  |
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Culprit 
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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I am expecting Elliot to never play again. I am hoping he does play again.  |
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Cuthbert Collingwood 
Once was on fire, now all at sea
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Location: The BBC (Brunswick Bowling Club)
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | John Wren wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | | I'm not a medical Doctor, so I can't comment on his injury, or its causes. |
as mugwump has kindly pointed out, you don't need to be an expert to pass comment. to be fair, it hasn't been a barrier for entry in the past for you or many others for that matter, me included.   |
I can't recall ever making a judgement on medical issues. On football matters, I regularly express completely emotional, uninformed, but absolutely passionate opinions on all manner of things related to the mighty magpies. However, ultimately, a man's got to know his limitations. I'll leave it to medicos to discuss medical matters. |
I concur with you wholly, though it's interesting to note how people seem to confuse "their opinion" with "scientific fact". There are all sorts of armchair experts who think that they know everything through their own anecdotal evidence, and it's not just footy that I'm talking about here. There is also an increasing tendency to devalue the opinion of the actual experts down to their own level. "I reckon..." is not the same as "I know"
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McRae for Governor-General! |
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Skids
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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This really sucks.
Luckily the Faz has stepped up and all but covered the loss of Billy from our forward line. Geez both of ém running around would be nice.
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Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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yin-YANG
Joined: 03 Oct 2011
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It seems Faz and Blair have taken turns to step up when needed… And more lately Cox, White and Moore have also filled the void left behind with Cloke's absence!
At the start of the year if you said the pIes would be without Elliott and Swan for the year and Cloke's confidence and form would warrant relegation to the magoos then you really would wonder how we would compete and score goals! I still do…
However the key is a mix of players all responsible for scoring and keeping up pressure on defenders to ensure the ball hangs around as long as possible and every contest is hard fought!
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Love us or Hate us... we are Collingwood - you can't ignore the Mighty Magpies!!! |
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Member 7167 
"What Good Fortune For Governments That The People Do Not Think" - Adolf Hitler.
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Location: The Collibran Hideout
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| Culprit wrote: | | I am expecting Elliot to never play again. I am hoping he does play again. |
That possibility exists but let's just hope the next round of treatment is more successful
Jamie at his best is a GUN and if fit has the potential to be elite.
A very sad and frustrating situation for all concerned.
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Now Retired - Every Day Is A Saturday
Last edited by Member 7167 on Wed May 18, 2016 1:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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3rd degree 
Joined: 22 Jun 2004
Location: John Wren's tote
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All the best to Elliot we have missed him in a huge way.
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" Ohhh Banksy and out comes the Note Book".
www.facebook/the hybernators |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| Member 7167 wrote: | | Culprit wrote: | | I am expecting Elliot to never play again. I am hoping he does play again. |
That possibility exists but let's just hope the next round of treatment is more successful
Jamie at his best is a GUN and if fit has the potential to be elite.
A very sad and frustrating situation for all concerned. |
My humble opinion is that it is probable that Elliot won’t play this season and it’s possible that he won’t play for a while.
The fact is that I have no bloody idea whether he will play again this season, next season or never again.
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Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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Krakouer Magic
Joined: 05 Apr 2011
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| Cuthbert Collingwood wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | | John Wren wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | | I'm not a medical Doctor, so I can't comment on his injury, or its causes. |
as mugwump has kindly pointed out, you don't need to be an expert to pass comment. to be fair, it hasn't been a barrier for entry in the past for you or many others for that matter, me included. |
I can't recall ever making a judgement on medical issues. On football matters, I regularly express completely emotional, uninformed, but absolutely passionate opinions on all manner of things related to the mighty magpies. However, ultimately, a man's got to know his limitations. I'll leave it to medicos to discuss medical matters. |
I concur with you wholly, though it's interesting to note how people seem to confuse "their opinion" with "scientific fact". There are all sorts of armchair experts who think that they know everything through their own anecdotal evidence, and it's not just footy that I'm talking about here. There is also an increasing tendency to devalue the opinion of the actual experts down to their own level. "I reckon..." is not the same as "I know" |
I agree I don't know Elliott's training regime for this preseason.
In fact, I doubt the pars defect would have been caused solely by his training load over the past 12 months. An overuse injury like pas defect seems to be progressive and cumulative over much more time, say a two to three year period.
According to an expert in the physiotherapy industry a person suffering from a pars defect will often have an exaggerated back arch and tight hamstrings.
http://physioworks.com.au/injuries-conditions-1/spondylolysis-pars-stress-fracture
So let's just run through a list of things we know.
* he first damaged his hammie in 2010 and that he probably has a genetic predisposition for muscle injuries in the legs and back. This fact surely would have been discussed by Collingwood staff at length prior to drafting him.
* the damage to his hamstrings would have been compounded with further strains in 2012, 2013 and in 2014.
* our training loads were upped considerably over 2012/13 and 14. I believe Davoren told mentioned it was upped by 30% in 2013/14.
* Eade said a factor that caused Elliott's hamstring issue in 2014 was "overload".
* collingwood reviewed its high performance staff in 2014 and that changes were made to key personal.
* Elliott has been attempting to monitor his training levels better since at least 2015.
* experts physio's say pars defect is an "overuse" stress injury.
* expert physio's say key indication of a pars defect is tight hamstrings.
* any injury, whether its due to genetics or misdiagnoses or by inadequate management (be it by the individual not following rehab protocols or not getting adequate advice), can lead to further more serious injuries in the future.
But even with all the above information that we know, I just can't be 100% for sure or be 100% certain or know for sure 100% that Collingwood's management of Elliott's hamstring injuries was good or bad...
But it sure as sh!t doesn't paint Collingwood in a great light does it? |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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IIRC the kid did a massive personal training regime in order to set himself up to be drafted in the first place. The initial damage may well have been done then as it wasn't exactly a program structured by a sports scientist, more like an old fashioned bust a gut/work like buggery then do it again regime.
The change to Davoran trying to increase players endurance capabilities to what was needed to play the current game styles probably didn't help, but like a stress fracture, it's bloody hard to diagnose until it shows real signs by which time it's too late.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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thompsoc
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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Well put Krakouer Magic
A really well written piece.
But unfortunately a number of Club attack dogs
have come up with "it is an opinion not a fact"
They use this every time not to refute it by a different argument but to put down and belittle the Poster.
Extending this issue further most people would believe that nearly everything on the board is an opinion and even so called statistics can be distorted in numerous ways.
Elliot is injured.
Cause blah blah blah!
response that is an opinion!
Well FMD! What a boring and righteous response.
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we don't eat our own at collingwood we just allow them to foul our nest. |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| stui magpie wrote: | IIRC the kid did a massive personal training regime in order to set himself up to be drafted in the first place. The initial damage may well have been done then as it wasn't exactly a program structured by a sports scientist, more like an old fashioned bust a gut/work like buggery then do it again regime.
The change to Davoran trying to increase players endurance capabilities to what was needed to play the current game styles probably didn't help, but like a stress fracture, it's bloody hard to diagnose until it shows real signs by which time it's too late. |
Yep, hard nosed local trainer worked with him. |
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Krakouer Magic
Joined: 05 Apr 2011
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| jackcass wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | IIRC the kid did a massive personal training regime in order to set himself up to be drafted in the first place. The initial damage may well have been done then as it wasn't exactly a program structured by a sports scientist, more like an old fashioned bust a gut/work like buggery then do it again regime.
The change to Davoran trying to increase players endurance capabilities to what was needed to play the current game styles probably didn't help, but like a stress fracture, it's bloody hard to diagnose until it shows real signs by which time it's too late. |
Yep, hard nosed local trainer worked with him. |
Yep I agree its more likely that Elliott's pars defect is directly related to the 9 week training he did with Kevin McFarlane in 2011 before we even drafted him. I say this because sports scientists never get it wrong. Cough cough Essendon... Cough cough stk with Davoran.... Cough cough Bulldogs with Davoran...
Everyone knows the 2014 season was ruined by the training regime. Was it 15 hamstring injuries that year?
My money is not on anything McFarlane did in 2011. Let's just say I don't know for sure, but Im comfortably satisfied (there's a term the sports scientist must love) that Elliott is still paying the long term effects of the 30% increase in training that happend over 13/14.
Last edited by Krakouer Magic on Wed May 18, 2016 11:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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thompsoc
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| Krakouer Magic wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | IIRC the kid did a massive personal training regime in order to set himself up to be drafted in the first place. The initial damage may well have been done then as it wasn't exactly a program structured by a sports scientist, more like an old fashioned bust a gut/work like buggery then do it again regime.
The change to Davoran trying to increase players endurance capabilities to what was needed to play the current game styles probably didn't help, but like a stress fracture, it's bloody hard to diagnose until it shows real signs by which time it's too late. |
Yep, hard nosed local trainer worked with him. |
Yep I agree its more likely that Elliott's pars defect is directly related to the 9 week training he did with Kevin McFarlane in 2011 before we even drafted him. I say this because sports scientists never get it wrong. Cough cough Essendon... Cough cough stk with Davoran.... Everyone knows the 2014 season was ruined by the training regime. Was it 15 hamstring injuries that year?
My money is not on anything McFarlane did in 2011. Let's just say I don't know for sure, but Im comfortably satisfied (there's a term the sports scientist must love) that Elliott is still paying the long term effects of the 30% increase in training that happend over 13/14. |
You are a legend KM.
You should post more often.
But you probably don't want to get in a constant scrap.
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we don't eat our own at collingwood we just allow them to foul our nest. |
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