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5150 
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
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Sad news for him, hope to see him back ASAP.
It's not right not having #5 not out there, it's un-Collingwood I tells ya... |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Bob Sugar wrote: | | I reckon the clubs given it every opportunity to heal naturally, hasn't worked and might be time to go under the knife now. |
If it's something that surgery can fix. Nathan Grima had back surgery mid last year to replace a couple of discs after he retired from the Roos but has managed to get back this year as a top up for the Dons, so anything is possible.
If it's not something easily fixed by surgery, the kid may have to consider retiring. He could still have a good long life but not play elite sport. From a selfish point of view I hope that doesn't happen but from his point of view I hope he gets the best advice he can and makes a long term decision.
Pretty sure we'd carry him on the list for a year or so if there was a clear prospect that rest and physical training could get him through. Hope it's all good for the kid. 
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Krakouer Magic
Joined: 05 Apr 2011
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| mattys123 wrote: | It's not mismanagement, at least on our part. I doubt there's a doctor or medical specialist at any AFL club that is an expert in this type of injury.
So we consulted one specialist and his advice has failed. So we try again with another specialist.
Seems what you or I would do, or anyone else if we had back problems. Keep looking for answers until the problem is either solved or the person with the injury just lives with it for life.
Where's the mismanagement?
Similar to what we've done with Ben Reid in the past, we tried different techniques to "fix him" and the latest one (sending him to germany) seems to be working. |
Just thought it would be helpful to track Elliott's hamstring and back issues over the years.
2010 - Elliott sat out most of the under 18 season with hamstring issues.
2012 - Elliott strained hamstring in preseason and missed NAB cup
2013 - Elliott strained his hammie
2014 - Elliott diagnosed with hamstring tendinitis in his left hamstring in March , which caused increased tension in his right hamstring. As a result, he tore the hamstring twice in the final five weeks of the 2014 season. Eade was quoted in the paper originally saying it was "it wasn't a full blown strain it was just an overload, cramp type (injury)".
2015 - misses games due to back (presumably early stages of pars defect)
2016 - pars defect
http://www.aflplayerratings.com.au/Ratings/Player/116630/Jamie-ELLIOTT
What is pars defect?
A pars stress fracture usually causes low back pain that is predominantly on one side of the back, as opposed to in the center of the back. It is caused by overuse and usually starts as mild pain that gradually worsens with running, jumping and kicking activities.
http://www.pamf.org/sports/harriss/parsstressfractures.pdf
So we can categorically say that Elliott has been prone to hamstring injuries since he was 17.
We can also state that the former football manager, Eade, said he has had issues with hammies due to overload. His need to manage his hammies better were even discussed in 2015 (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-03-20/elliott-strings-it-out)
It would appear that Elliott's hamstring issues could also be related to the development of an overuse injury like pars defect. Tight hamstrings since 2010 and having "overload" injuries in leg muscles would increase pressure on the lower back wouldn't they?
I'm not accusing the club of mismanagement. This injury could just have always been going to happen. It could be that Elliot is genetically built this way. Same goes for Freeman, Reid, Varcoe, Marsh and co. Maybe they are all built to genetically have dodgey hammies and soft tissue leg muscles in general. |
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jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| Krakouer Magic wrote: | | mattys123 wrote: | It's not mismanagement, at least on our part. I doubt there's a doctor or medical specialist at any AFL club that is an expert in this type of injury.
So we consulted one specialist and his advice has failed. So we try again with another specialist.
Seems what you or I would do, or anyone else if we had back problems. Keep looking for answers until the problem is either solved or the person with the injury just lives with it for life.
Where's the mismanagement?
Similar to what we've done with Ben Reid in the past, we tried different techniques to "fix him" and the latest one (sending him to germany) seems to be working. |
Just thought it would be helpful to track Elliott's hamstring and back issues over the years.
2010 - Elliott sat out most of the under 18 season with hamstring issues.
2012 - Elliott strained hamstring in preseason and missed NAB cup
2013 - Elliott strained his hammie
2014 - Elliott diagnosed with hamstring tendinitis in his left hamstring in March , which caused increased tension in his right hamstring. As a result, he tore the hamstring twice in the final five weeks of the 2014 season. Eade was quoted in the paper originally saying it was "it wasn't a full blown strain it was just an overload, cramp type (injury)".
2015 - misses games due to back (presumably early stages of pars defect)
2016 - pars defect
http://www.aflplayerratings.com.au/Ratings/Player/116630/Jamie-ELLIOTT
What is pars defect?
A pars stress fracture usually causes low back pain that is predominantly on one side of the back, as opposed to in the center of the back. It is caused by overuse and usually starts as mild pain that gradually worsens with running, jumping and kicking activities.
http://www.pamf.org/sports/harriss/parsstressfractures.pdf
So we can categorically say that Elliott has been prone to hamstring injuries since he was 17.
We can also state that the former football manager, Eade, said he has had issues with hammies due to overload. His need to manage his hammies better were even discussed in 2015 (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-03-20/elliott-strings-it-out)
It would appear that Elliott's hamstring issues could also be related to the development of an overuse injury like pars defect. Tight hamstrings since 2010 and having "overload" injuries in leg muscles would increase pressure on the lower back wouldn't they?
I'm not accusing the club of mismanagement. This injury could just have always been going to happen. It could be that Elliot is genetically built this way. Same goes for Freeman, Reid, Varcoe, Marsh and co. Maybe they are all built to genetically have dodgey hammies and soft tissue leg muscles in general. |
Well constructed post but as you suggest hard to draw any conclusions from any of that in terms of "management" without any specific data or knowledge of each individual case. |
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Member 7167 
"What Good Fortune For Governments That The People Do Not Think" - Adolf Hitler.
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Location: The Collibran Hideout
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| Dave The Man wrote: | | roar wrote: | | Dave The Man wrote: | That is why Nathan Freeman left.
Hated our Fitness and Medical Staff |
How would you know, Dave?
This year is a write off anyway, so hopefully he will have the time needed to get better. |
Reported Everywhere during the Trade Period |
Natham Freeman was offered a longer term contract and more money that Collingwood were willing to offer. They are the reasons Freeman left. End of story. Everything else is a whitewash.
_________________
Now Retired - Every Day Is A Saturday |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| Member 7167 wrote: | | Dave The Man wrote: | | roar wrote: | | Dave The Man wrote: | That is why Nathan Freeman left.
Hated our Fitness and Medical Staff |
How would you know, Dave?
This year is a write off anyway, so hopefully he will have the time needed to get better. |
Reported Everywhere during the Trade Period |
Natham Freeman was offered a longer term contract and more money that Collingwood were willing to offer. They are the reason Freeman left. End of story. Everything else is a whitewash. |
That was my take on it. Had an offer on the table but he didn't think what the Pies were offering was adequate. Pies appear to have had some concerns about his fitness and likelihood of playing and structured the offer accordingly. Hopefully he gets back to playing footy. |
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Member 7167
"What Good Fortune For Governments That The People Do Not Think" - Adolf Hitler.
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Location: The Collibran Hideout
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I agree Jackass. The kid has had a rough run. I hope he makes it. You cannot hold it against him for taking an offer that would contribute significantly to his long term financial wellbeing. Daisy was faced with the same problem.
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Now Retired - Every Day Is A Saturday |
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Krakouer Magic
Joined: 05 Apr 2011
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| jackcass wrote: | | Krakouer Magic wrote: | | mattys123 wrote: | It's not mismanagement, at least on our part. I doubt there's a doctor or medical specialist at any AFL club that is an expert in this type of injury.
So we consulted one specialist and his advice has failed. So we try again with another specialist.
Seems what you or I would do, or anyone else if we had back problems. Keep looking for answers until the problem is either solved or the person with the injury just lives with it for life.
Where's the mismanagement?
Similar to what we've done with Ben Reid in the past, we tried different techniques to "fix him" and the latest one (sending him to germany) seems to be working. |
Just thought it would be helpful to track Elliott's hamstring and back issues over the years.
2010 - Elliott sat out most of the under 18 season with hamstring issues.
2012 - Elliott strained hamstring in preseason and missed NAB cup
2013 - Elliott strained his hammie
2014 - Elliott diagnosed with hamstring tendinitis in his left hamstring in March , which caused increased tension in his right hamstring. As a result, he tore the hamstring twice in the final five weeks of the 2014 season. Eade was quoted in the paper originally saying it was "it wasn't a full blown strain it was just an overload, cramp type (injury)".
2015 - misses games due to back (presumably early stages of pars defect)
2016 - pars defect
http://www.aflplayerratings.com.au/Ratings/Player/116630/Jamie-ELLIOTT
What is pars defect?
A pars stress fracture usually causes low back pain that is predominantly on one side of the back, as opposed to in the center of the back. It is caused by overuse and usually starts as mild pain that gradually worsens with running, jumping and kicking activities.
http://www.pamf.org/sports/harriss/parsstressfractures.pdf
So we can categorically say that Elliott has been prone to hamstring injuries since he was 17.
We can also state that the former football manager, Eade, said he has had issues with hammies due to overload. His need to manage his hammies better were even discussed in 2015 (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-03-20/elliott-strings-it-out)
It would appear that Elliott's hamstring issues could also be related to the development of an overuse injury like pars defect. Tight hamstrings since 2010 and having "overload" injuries in leg muscles would increase pressure on the lower back wouldn't they?
I'm not accusing the club of mismanagement. This injury could just have always been going to happen. It could be that Elliot is genetically built this way. Same goes for Freeman, Reid, Varcoe, Marsh and co. Maybe they are all built to genetically have dodgey hammies and soft tissue leg muscles in general. |
Well constructed post but as you suggest hard to draw any conclusions from any of that in terms of "management" without any specific data or knowledge of each individual case. |
It's hard to be definitive I guess. You could argue that Elliott just has dodgy hammies and its in his DNA. You could say its all his fault cause he trains to hard and overloads his hammies and gets a pars defect.
But I'd struggle to argue, based on the timeline of Elliott's issues, that Collingwood have been particularly good at preventing the incidence of his hammie/back injuries. I mean we'd have to agree on that surely.
Based just on the timeline of Elliott's history I couldn't really say definitively that Collingwood have been fantastic at pulling Elliot aside and reigning him in so that he does not overload his hammies. Would pulling him aside and reigning him in be described as some form of "management"?
Either way, you'd have to know the data or have knowledge of his individual case to ascertain whether Collingwood are good or bad a player welfare/training "management" type thing I guess.
Though on face value you could argue that Collingwood appears to have had very little influence in preventing a player with a genetic predisposition toward hamstring injuries from progressing to a pars defect overuse type injury. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| I'm not a medical Doctor, so I can't comment on his injury, or its causes. |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | I'm not a medical Doctor, so I can't comment on his injury, or its causes. |
Why would that stop you ?
Jez is not a medical doctor, nor has he examined Jamie, nor (clearly) has he observed the pre-season closely, nor is he a football coach or past player, yet he's an expert on all of the above, apparently.
_________________
Two more flags before I die! |
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John Wren 
"Look after the game. It means so much to so many."
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | I'm not a medical Doctor, so I can't comment on his injury, or its causes. |
as mugwump has kindly pointed out, you don't need to be an expert to pass comment. to be fair, it hasn't been a barrier for entry in the past for you or many others for that matter, me included.  
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Purveyor of sanctimonious twaddle. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| John Wren wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | | I'm not a medical Doctor, so I can't comment on his injury, or its causes. |
as mugwump has kindly pointed out, you don't need to be an expert to pass comment. to be fair, it hasn't been a barrier for entry in the past for you or many others for that matter, me included. |
I can't recall ever making a judgement on medical issues. On football matters, I regularly express completely emotional, uninformed, but absolutely passionate opinions on all manner of things related to the mighty magpies. However, ultimately, a man's got to know his limitations. I'll leave it to medicos to discuss medical matters. |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| Krakouer Magic wrote: | It's hard to be definitive I guess. You could argue that Elliott just has dodgy hammies and its in his DNA. You could say its all his fault cause he trains to hard and overloads his hammies and gets a pars defect.
But I'd struggle to argue, based on the timeline of Elliott's issues, that Collingwood have been particularly good at preventing the incidence of his hammie/back injuries. I mean we'd have to agree on that surely.
Based just on the timeline of Elliott's history I couldn't really say definitively that Collingwood have been fantastic at pulling Elliot aside and reigning him in so that he does not overload his hammies. Would pulling him aside and reigning him in be described as some form of "management"?
Either way, you'd have to know the data or have knowledge of his individual case to ascertain whether Collingwood are good or bad a player welfare/training "management" type thing I guess.
Though on face value you could argue that Collingwood appears to have had very little influence in preventing a player with a genetic predisposition toward hamstring injuries from progressing to a pars defect overuse type injury. |
I guess if you went through every club there'd likely be a player or 2 who have struggled over multiple seasons with injuries. Every player is an individual and it's a less than perfect science. |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| As a matter of fact I did say that. |
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MP magpie
Joined: 14 May 2016
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Wasnt a stretch to see this happening once I read about PARS defect.
Hopefully can be sorted by 2017. |
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