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Brown26
Joined: 14 Sep 2001
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
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Wow everyone just take a deep breath. The OP was stating that we have a young list AND that some of our players aren't as experienced as they could be if they weren't injured. That's pretty obvious.
When you're sporting team / company / women's prison chef isn't preforming it's obvious to question the boss - who's in charge? - and in our case that's Buckley and he's said that himself, he's responsible for this team and the buck stops with him. It's not necessarily his fault, but one has to question if his direction is the right way or not. Having blind faith one way or the other is a different story. Anyone who says we're not playing better than we did in round one isn't watching the football or is watching through rose coloured glasses.
Anyone who thinks we're a premiership threat next week is dreaming. But to say the ONLY problem is Buckley is naive, and to think that sacking him would be a quick fix the same. I think our team needs to show two things:
1. Improvement in skills and decision making
2. Improvement in off the ball knowledge / implementation of the defensive AND offensive elements of the game plan.
If they do those two things by the end of the year (and I think we're starting to show that) then I think Buckley has done his job and the boys are on the right track. If not, then the coaches position must be questioned and, particularly, is there anyone better suited for the job?
BUT I have to ask - why does every thread turn into a sack Buckley / keep Buckley thread? Can't we discuss the team and the players and their application to the game plan (which is pretty obvious if you watch the game, even if you don't like the game plan we have one, it just doesn't work at the moment!) without trying to blame one person for our failings all the time?
- Ben
- Ben |
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Jez07
Joined: 02 May 2016
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| The club internally didn't believe it was rebuilding when they traded this year's pick. They thought they would be a lot higher than they are. |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
Without all the injuries, we would be and may yet will be. It's a long season and we aren't cooked yet.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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| Brown26 wrote: | Wow everyone just take a deep breath. The OP was stating that we have a young list AND that some of our players aren't as experienced as they could be if they weren't injured. That's pretty obvious.
When you're sporting team / company / women's prison chef isn't preforming it's obvious to question the boss - who's in charge? - and in our case that's Buckley and he's said that himself, he's responsible for this team and the buck stops with him. It's not necessarily his fault, but one has to question if his direction is the right way or not. Having blind faith one way or the other is a different story. Anyone who says we're not playing better than we did in round one isn't watching the football or is watching through rose coloured glasses.
Anyone who thinks we're a premiership threat next week is dreaming. But to say the ONLY problem is Buckley is naive, and to think that sacking him would be a quick fix the same. I think our team needs to show two things:
1. Improvement in skills and decision making
2. Improvement in off the ball knowledge / implementation of the defensive AND offensive elements of the game plan.
If they do those two things by the end of the year (and I think we're starting to show that) then I think Buckley has done his job and the boys are on the right track. If not, then the coaches position must be questioned and, particularly, is there anyone better suited for the job?
BUT I have to ask - why does every thread turn into a sack Buckley / keep Buckley thread? Can't we discuss the team and the players and their application to the game plan (which is pretty obvious if you watch the game, even if you don't like the game plan we have one, it just doesn't work at the moment!) without trying to blame one person for our failings all the time?
- Ben
- Ben |
SPOT ON BEN well said, a very lucid and sensible post, in a week of glass half empties . 
_________________
Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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Redlight
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
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| Jez07 wrote: | | The club internally didn't believe it was rebuilding when they traded this year's pick. They thought they would be a lot higher than they are. |
It might be best if you could phrase your guesses and presumptions as just that, instead of objective fact. |
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The Boy Who Cried Wolf
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Location: We prefer free speech - you know it's right
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| Redlight wrote: | | Jez07 wrote: | | The club internally didn't believe it was rebuilding when they traded this year's pick. They thought they would be a lot higher than they are. |
It might be best if you could phrase your guesses and presumptions as just that, instead of objective fact. |
True, even though its obviously true what he says... only a fool would believe otherwise - it makes zero sense trading away our pick otherwise. |
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Jez07
Joined: 02 May 2016
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Yes. Please explain why they would trade Pick 7 in 2015 and currently Pick 5 in 2016.
Surely if you were rebuilding, the cornerstone of your rebuild would be multiple Top 7 picks in successive drafts.
This is why this year such a wasted year. The first pick we will have for finishing in the bottom 5/6 is a pick in the 20's.
With GWS having access to 5 X Top 25 rated players, that pick will be even further bumped down the order. Our first pick this year could be around the 25/30 mark. An unmitigated disaster.
As bad as Tony Shaw was as coach, when he left Collingwood he gave Malthouse the 1st Pick in the draft and the 3rd Pick (which was downgraded). A bottom 5/6 finish this year would end Buckley's coaching career and he is leaving the next coach with a pick in the late 20's to show for this year. |
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yin-YANG
Joined: 03 Oct 2011
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| Piesnchess wrote: | | Brown26 wrote: | Wow everyone just take a deep breath. The OP was stating that we have a young list AND that some of our players aren't as experienced as they could be if they weren't injured. That's pretty obvious.
When you're sporting team / company / women's prison chef isn't preforming it's obvious to question the boss - who's in charge? - and in our case that's Buckley and he's said that himself, he's responsible for this team and the buck stops with him. It's not necessarily his fault, but one has to question if his direction is the right way or not. Having blind faith one way or the other is a different story. Anyone who says we're not playing better than we did in round one isn't watching the football or is watching through rose coloured glasses.
Anyone who thinks we're a premiership threat next week is dreaming. But to say the ONLY problem is Buckley is naive, and to think that sacking him would be a quick fix the same. I think our team needs to show two things:
1. Improvement in skills and decision making
2. Improvement in off the ball knowledge / implementation of the defensive AND offensive elements of the game plan.
If they do those two things by the end of the year (and I think we're starting to show that) then I think Buckley has done his job and the boys are on the right track. If not, then the coaches position must be questioned and, particularly, is there anyone better suited for the job?
BUT I have to ask - why does every thread turn into a sack Buckley / keep Buckley thread? Can't we discuss the team and the players and their application to the game plan (which is pretty obvious if you watch the game, even if you don't like the game plan we have one, it just doesn't work at the moment!) without trying to blame one person for our failings all the time?
- Ben
- Ben |
SPOT ON BEN well said, a very lucid and sensible post, in a week of glass half empties . |
I would have agreed Ben - a couple of years ago… however the skills of our players has gone backwards and I believe it is not just about personal ability it is a game plan that is not suitable and effective…
I will be rapt to be wrong and hope to see the same signs you have noticed against some of the teams pushing for the 8 or even the top teams - however for now I am just hoping we can beat the other cellar dwellers and avoid a spoon!
_________________
Love us or Hate us... we are Collingwood - you can't ignore the Mighty Magpies!!! |
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
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| yin-YANG wrote: | | Piesnchess wrote: | | Brown26 wrote: | Wow everyone just take a deep breath. The OP was stating that we have a young list AND that some of our players aren't as experienced as they could be if they weren't injured. That's pretty obvious.
When you're sporting team / company / women's prison chef isn't preforming it's obvious to question the boss - who's in charge? - and in our case that's Buckley and he's said that himself, he's responsible for this team and the buck stops with him. It's not necessarily his fault, but one has to question if his direction is the right way or not. Having blind faith one way or the other is a different story. Anyone who says we're not playing better than we did in round one isn't watching the football or is watching through rose coloured glasses.
Anyone who thinks we're a premiership threat next week is dreaming. But to say the ONLY problem is Buckley is naive, and to think that sacking him would be a quick fix the same. I think our team needs to show two things:
1. Improvement in skills and decision making
2. Improvement in off the ball knowledge / implementation of the defensive AND offensive elements of the game plan.
If they do those two things by the end of the year (and I think we're starting to show that) then I think Buckley has done his job and the boys are on the right track. If not, then the coaches position must be questioned and, particularly, is there anyone better suited for the job?
BUT I have to ask - why does every thread turn into a sack Buckley / keep Buckley thread? Can't we discuss the team and the players and their application to the game plan (which is pretty obvious if you watch the game, even if you don't like the game plan we have one, it just doesn't work at the moment!) without trying to blame one person for our failings all the time?
- Ben
- Ben |
SPOT ON BEN well said, a very lucid and sensible post, in a week of glass half empties . |
I would have agreed Ben - a couple of years ago… however the skills of our players has gone backwards and I believe it is not just about personal ability it is a game plan that is not suitable and effective…
I will be rapt to be wrong and hope to see the same signs you have noticed against some of the teams pushing for the 8 or even the top teams - however for now I am just hoping we can beat the other cellar dwellers and avoid a spoon! |
I honestly can't say that the skills of the players have gone backwards. More the lack of cohesion amongst the group of players we field each week and that's due to the unstable lineup we have each week and that's caused by injuries and loss of form of some players. The loss of form is understandable given players are playing alongside a number of first and second year players who are still coming to terms with how tough it is to play AFL footy. Players need to have trust with their teammates as to where to run to, where to cover their space, who and where to kick the ball and when to join the contest or run back to cover the space. If your teammates aren't covering for you, you end up getting less of the ball and you lose confidence and your form drops off and then you find yourself out of the team. It's like that for Cloke and Brown. They should be the first two chosen in the team so it's sad to have to watch them n the VFL. It's just the circumstances we find ourselves in and nothing to do with the coach, the admin or the fitness guy and the only way of getting out of this situation is a lot of hard work on the training track to get our confidence back with a bit of luck on the injury front. |
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King Monkey
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Location: On a journey to seek the scriptures of enlightenment....
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| Jez07 wrote: | Yes. Please explain why they would trade Pick 7 in 2015 and currently Pick 5 in 2016.
Surely if you were rebuilding, the cornerstone of your rebuild would be multiple Top 7 picks in successive drafts.
This is why this year such a wasted year. The first pick we will have for finishing in the bottom 5/6 is a pick in the 20's.
With GWS having access to 5 X Top 25 rated players, that pick will be even further bumped down the order. Our first pick this year could be around the 25/30 mark. An unmitigated disaster.
As bad as Tony Shaw was as coach, when he left Collingwood he gave Malthouse the 1st Pick in the draft and the 3rd Pick (which was downgraded). A bottom 5/6 finish this year would end Buckley's coaching career and he is leaving the next coach with a pick in the late 20's to show for this year. |
Did you not read the OP??
How would it help our current situation to bring in a couple more 18 year olds that'll take a couple of years to get up to speed??
We've got a group to take us forward, they need to play together. The nucleus of a very good football side is there.
Of course you'll add one or two and lose one or two here and there, but this is the group we're going with and a high draft pick at the end if this year would make the difference equivalent to 7/8 of SFA.
_________________
"I am a great sage, equal of heaven.
Grow stick, grow.
Fly cloud, fly.
Oh you are a dee-mon, I love to fiiight." |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| I know for a fact there is a full scale review of our football department currently underway. Unless we start to improve significantly, and soon, I expect there will be a big turn over of assistant coaches at the end of the season. Bucks will coach us in 2017. |
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yin-YANG
Joined: 03 Oct 2011
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| BucksIsFutureCoach wrote: | | yin-YANG wrote: | | Piesnchess wrote: | | Brown26 wrote: | Wow everyone just take a deep breath. The OP was stating that we have a young list AND that some of our players aren't as experienced as they could be if they weren't injured. That's pretty obvious.
When you're sporting team / company / women's prison chef isn't preforming it's obvious to question the boss - who's in charge? - and in our case that's Buckley and he's said that himself, he's responsible for this team and the buck stops with him. It's not necessarily his fault, but one has to question if his direction is the right way or not. Having blind faith one way or the other is a different story. Anyone who says we're not playing better than we did in round one isn't watching the football or is watching through rose coloured glasses.
Anyone who thinks we're a premiership threat next week is dreaming. But to say the ONLY problem is Buckley is naive, and to think that sacking him would be a quick fix the same. I think our team needs to show two things:
1. Improvement in skills and decision making
2. Improvement in off the ball knowledge / implementation of the defensive AND offensive elements of the game plan.
If they do those two things by the end of the year (and I think we're starting to show that) then I think Buckley has done his job and the boys are on the right track. If not, then the coaches position must be questioned and, particularly, is there anyone better suited for the job?
BUT I have to ask - why does every thread turn into a sack Buckley / keep Buckley thread? Can't we discuss the team and the players and their application to the game plan (which is pretty obvious if you watch the game, even if you don't like the game plan we have one, it just doesn't work at the moment!) without trying to blame one person for our failings all the time?
- Ben
- Ben |
SPOT ON BEN well said, a very lucid and sensible post, in a week of glass half empties . |
I would have agreed Ben - a couple of years ago… however the skills of our players has gone backwards and I believe it is not just about personal ability it is a game plan that is not suitable and effective…
I will be rapt to be wrong and hope to see the same signs you have noticed against some of the teams pushing for the 8 or even the top teams - however for now I am just hoping we can beat the other cellar dwellers and avoid a spoon! |
I honestly can't say that the skills of the players have gone backwards. More the lack of cohesion amongst the group of players we field each week and that's due to the unstable lineup we have each week and that's caused by injuries and loss of form of some players. The loss of form is understandable given players are playing alongside a number of first and second year players who are still coming to terms with how tough it is to play AFL footy. Players need to have trust with their teammates as to where to run to, where to cover their space, who and where to kick the ball and when to join the contest or run back to cover the space. If your teammates aren't covering for you, you end up getting less of the ball and you lose confidence and your form drops off and then you find yourself out of the team. It's like that for Cloke and Brown. They should be the first two chosen in the team so it's sad to have to watch them n the VFL. It's just the circumstances we find ourselves in and nothing to do with the coach, the admin or the fitness guy and the only way of getting out of this situation is a lot of hard work on the training track to get our confidence back with a bit of luck on the injury front. |
The problem is that the game plan does not accentuate the players strength or team ability…
Working harder on the training track will help - but that is not the answer at the elite level - might work for a local country side but at the top level with millions of dollars and teams of coaches and analysis it takes more than just hours slogging on the track - they all do that and more! These are professionals… I have a sneaking suspicion Buckley agrees with you BIFC and is hoping the training tack will work a few things out - but that is why I am worried!
_________________
Love us or Hate us... we are Collingwood - you can't ignore the Mighty Magpies!!! |
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CarringbushCigar 
Joined: 15 Nov 2007
Location: wherever I lay my beanie
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | I know for a fact there is a full scale review of our football department currently underway. Unless we start to improve significantly, and soon, I expect there will be a big turn over of assistant coaches at the end of the season. Bucks will coach us in 2017. |
Who is going to apply to be assistant to Bucks in 2017.
Its an 8 round gig at most. |
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