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inxs88
Joined: 17 Aug 2014
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| Post subject: Buckley vs Malthouse: who attracted better talent? |  |
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It's always interesting reading the respective barbs on Nick's as to who fans align themselves with. Obviously Mick's record exceeds Bucks however I thought an exercise worth researching and sharing would be who has attracted better talent from opposing clubs or relevant leagues. Obviously Buckley's sample size and time frame is 7 years less but the names make for interesting reading.
The following lists are broken into wins , fails, and jury out still for those whose success rating are still a work in progress as of 28th April 2016.
Nathan Buckley:
Wins:
* Adam Treloar
* Taylor Adams
* Travis Varcoe
* Jack Crisp
Fails:
* Marty Clarke
* Q Stick
* Jessie White
* Clinton Young
* Tony Armstrong
* Patrick Karnezis
* Jordan Russell
Jury Out:
* Jeremy Howe
* Levi Greenwood
* James Aish
Mick Malthouse:
Wins:
* Shane O'Bree
* Shane Wakelin
* Brodie Holland
* James Clement
* Nick Maxwell
* Paul Medhurst
* Darren Jolly
* Luke Ball
* Leigh Brown
* Andrew Krakouer
Fails:
* Andrew Ukovic
* Steven McKee
* Jarrod Molloy
* Carl Steinfort
* Shane Woewodin
* Chad Rintoul
* Scott Cummings
* Chad Morrison
* Andrew Williams
* Blake Caracella (unfortunate)
* Cameron Wood
* Anthony Corrie
* Simon Buckley
Many ways to interpret the above, however an interesting set of names. Obviously there are some A graders recruited and some busts as well. I guess anecdotally, it feels like it took an eternity for Mick to attract a Jolly or a Ball to the club, yet Bucks has been able to secure a big name each year.
Maybe it all comes down to one thing: Bali 
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Dangles
Balmey Army
Joined: 14 May 2015
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Dave The Man 
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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Depends are we Talking Early or Late MM.
Some of Buck's players are still young
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Bob Sugar
Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Location: Benalla
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Who's to say either attracted any talent? We've all heard how Adams and Treloar only came to us because they played under Bucks, but hey, they didn't exactly take pay cuts now did they?
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Jpies
Joined: 09 Apr 2016
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Whats the benchmark for classifying players? I don't think we can judge them to a higher standard than filling the role they were recruited for. There's some harsh calls in the "fail" list IMO.
I thought Q Stick played fairly well as a third forward target at least for a while, and I can't imagine that he was expected to play longer (as he wasn't exactly young).
Woewodin also cops a fair bit on these forums, which I'm not convinced is warranted. From memory, Melbourne paid a huge amount of his salary. If a club is prepared to pay a players wage just to get rid of them and cut their losses, you could hardly expect them to be an a grader. Based on what we actually paid him, what he gave us probably wasn't a bad return IMO.
I'd give one more win each
Last edited by Jpies on Thu Apr 28, 2016 11:50 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jpies
Joined: 09 Apr 2016
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| edit: double post |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Does a club? |
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inxs88
Joined: 17 Aug 2014
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| Jpies wrote: | Whats the benchmark for classifying players? I don't think we can judge them to a higher standard than filling the role they were recruited for. There's some harsh calls in the "fail" list IMO.
I thought Q Stick played fairly well as a third forward target at least for a while, and I can't imagine that he was expected to play longer (as he wasn't exactly young).
Woewodin also cops a fair bit on these forums, which I'm not convinced is warranted. From memory, Melbourne paid a huge amount of his salary. If a club is prepared to pay a players wage just to get rid of them and cut their losses, you could hardly expect them to be an a grader. Based on what we actually paid him, what he gave us probably wasn't a bad return IMO.
I'd give one more win each |
We gave up pick 14 for Shane. Who went after him in the draft that year that exceeded Woey's career at the Pies??
* Brad Sewell
* Tom Lonergan
* Minson
* Jared Rivers
* Daniel Merrett
* Sean Dempster
* Kade Simpson
* Adam Selwood
* Ryan Crowley
* Nick Malceski
* Craig Bolton
* Brent Moloney
* Michael Firrito
* Joel Patfull
* Jason Porplyzia
All had long and enduring careers vs Shane whom was delisted after 3 seasons by Mick as in his words "couldn't get it done in the big games"..
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jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| Maxwell doesn't belong in this discussion. |
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Bob Sugar
Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Location: Benalla
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| inxs88 wrote: | | Jpies wrote: | Whats the benchmark for classifying players? I don't think we can judge them to a higher standard than filling the role they were recruited for. There's some harsh calls in the "fail" list IMO.
I thought Q Stick played fairly well as a third forward target at least for a while, and I can't imagine that he was expected to play longer (as he wasn't exactly young).
Woewodin also cops a fair bit on these forums, which I'm not convinced is warranted. From memory, Melbourne paid a huge amount of his salary. If a club is prepared to pay a players wage just to get rid of them and cut their losses, you could hardly expect them to be an a grader. Based on what we actually paid him, what he gave us probably wasn't a bad return IMO.
I'd give one more win each |
We gave up pick 14 for Shane. Who went after him in the draft that year that exceeded Woey's career at the Pies??
* Brad Sewell
* Tom Lonergan
* Minson
* Jared Rivers
* Daniel Merrett
* Sean Dempster
* Kade Simpson
* Adam Selwood
* Ryan Crowley
* Nick Malceski
* Craig Bolton
* Brent Moloney
* Michael Firrito
* Joel Patfull
* Jason Porplyzia
All had long and enduring careers vs Shane whom was delisted after 3 seasons by Mick as in his words "couldn't get it done in the big games".. |
Recent developments have cast a giant shadow over Shane's 'Glory days' at Melbourne.
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Defender...........
On the day before the first, Daicos created God.
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inxs88
Joined: 17 Aug 2014
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| jackcass wrote: | | Maxwell doesn't belong in this discussion. |
I know it's your goal in life to peruse the blogs on Nick and provide a contrary comment on anything I post, which is pretty lame Greening try hard! Nick Maxwell trained at several VFL clubs (eg Geelong) plus North Ballarat and was one of Mick's great success stories.
Additionally Buckley re hired Marty Clarke which was a bust. If you read the "fine print" in my introduction, you would have noticed the thread denoted other clubs and "leagues".
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The Prototype 
Paint my face with a good-for-nothin smile.
Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Location: Hobart, Tasmania
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Presti35
Dick Lee for Legend Status
Joined: 05 Oct 2001
Location: London, England
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You forgot the second coming of Chris Tarrant!
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A Goal Saved Is 2 Goals Earned! |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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| Post subject: Re: Buckley vs Malthouse: who attracted better talent? | |
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| inxs88 wrote: | It's always interesting reading the respective barbs on Nick's as to who fans align themselves with. Obviously Mick's record exceeds Bucks however I thought an exercise worth researching and sharing would be who has attracted better talent from opposing clubs or relevant leagues. Obviously Buckley's sample size and time frame is 7 years less but the names make for interesting reading.
The following lists are broken into wins , fails, and jury out still for those whose success rating are still a work in progress as of 28th April 2016.
Nathan Buckley:
Wins:
* Adam Treloar
* Taylor Adams
* Travis Varcoe
* Jack Crisp
Fails:
* Marty Clarke
* Q Stick
* Jessie White
* Clinton Young
* Tony Armstrong
* Patrick Karnezis
* Jordan Russell
Jury Out:
* Jeremy Howe
* Levi Greenwood
* James Aish
Mick Malthouse:
Wins:
* Shane O'Bree
* Shane Wakelin
* Brodie Holland
* James Clement
* Nick Maxwell
* Paul Medhurst
* Darren Jolly
* Luke Ball
* Leigh Brown
* Andrew Krakouer
Fails:
* Andrew Ukovic
* Steven McKee
* Jarrod Molloy
* Carl Steinfort
* Shane Woewodin
* Chad Rintoul
* Scott Cummings
* Chad Morrison
* Andrew Williams
* Blake Caracella (unfortunate)
* Cameron Wood
* Anthony Corrie
* Simon Buckley
Many ways to interpret the above, however an interesting set of names. Obviously there are some A graders recruited and some busts as well. I guess anecdotally, it feels like it took an eternity for Mick to attract a Jolly or a Ball to the club, yet Bucks has been able to secure a big name each year.
Maybe it all comes down to one thing: Bali |
this is a pretty silly exercise. To judge the comparative success or failure of a coach by examining a list of players who joined the club via trade (together with subjective assessments of certain drafted players who should be treated like trades because it suits you) is nonsense.
for a start, some players on your list were always simply list stuffers that cost us NOTHING to acquire and the players were acquired as no more than depth players. How can the fact that the player ended up a list stuffer, possibly constitute a failure?
Then look at the fact that a team that is approaching a premiership is likely to sacrifice good draft picks for mature players so as to stuff the team with players who are ready to contribute now. Buckley hasn't had that team yet and so hasn't gone after the Jolly's or Ball's just yet. Might happen in the coming couple of years however.
In my mind, this is just two arbitrary lists of names that mean nothing about Malthouse or Buckley other than the fact that they casme to the club while these coaches were the coach......
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Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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Culprit
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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Yawn, another crap comparison post. Mods roll all these Malthouse posts into one. They are all the same.  |
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