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Redlight
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
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| AN_Inkling wrote: | | ^^I sense sarcasm, but this view does have some validity. Under Buckley we've lost far more players that we would have preferred to keep than under our previous coach, of which Freeman is an example. It's accelerated both our decline and our rebuild. How much of this is caused by a problem with player management, the introduction of free agency or unavoidable friction after the poorly judged handover is the question. |
Apart from Heater, I can't think of a single Pie playing for another club that has done anything of note. The trades are looking almost entirely in our favour. |
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Bob Sugar
Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Location: Benalla
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| Redlight wrote: | | AN_Inkling wrote: | | ^^I sense sarcasm, but this view does have some validity. Under Buckley we've lost far more players that we would have preferred to keep than under our previous coach, of which Freeman is an example. It's accelerated both our decline and our rebuild. How much of this is caused by a problem with player management, the introduction of free agency or unavoidable friction after the poorly judged handover is the question. |
Apart from Heater, I can't think of a single Pie playing for another club that has done anything of note. The trades are looking almost entirely in our favour. |
Wasn't Wellingham AA last year? Pretty sure he made the squad anyway, I could be trippin though.
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The Prototype 
Paint my face with a good-for-nothin smile.
Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Location: Hobart, Tasmania
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AN_Inkling
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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| Redlight wrote: | | AN_Inkling wrote: | | ^^I sense sarcasm, but this view does have some validity. Under Buckley we've lost far more players that we would have preferred to keep than under our previous coach, of which Freeman is an example. It's accelerated both our decline and our rebuild. How much of this is caused by a problem with player management, the introduction of free agency or unavoidable friction after the poorly judged handover is the question. |
Apart from Heater, I can't think of a single Pie playing for another club that has done anything of note. The trades are looking almost entirely in our favour. |
I'd say all of Shaw, Wellingham, Lumumba and Beams have done something and would be part of our team now, and despite his injuries losing Thomas was still a big deal.
Though I'm not saying that we lost out in the trades, these moves have "accelerated both our decline and our rebuild". They were important to bring in some more young players. Still, it didn't seem to be a concerted effort for regeneration, but more a bunch of players who didn't want to play for our club. These were players who were playing regular senior footy, but wanted out. That's a concern and is one of the reasons why we have fallen as far as we have, it tears at the fabric of the playing group.
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Bob Sugar
Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Location: Benalla
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| The Prototype wrote: | | Bob Sugar wrote: | | Wasn't Wellingham AA last year? Pretty sure he made the squad anyway, I could be trippin though. |
He didn't make either that I could find, I did a google search and he didn't make the squad or the team. |
Yeah didn't make the squad, he played some good footy for WC though, not saying we lost the trade because we really didn't have a choice and the Eagles first rounder was was as good as we could've hoped for.
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The Prototype
Paint my face with a good-for-nothin smile.
Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Location: Hobart, Tasmania
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| Bob Sugar wrote: | | Yeah didn't make the squad, he played some good footy for WC though, not saying we lost the trade because we really didn't have a choice and the Eagles first rounder was was as good as we could've hoped for. |
He has, been a bit of a slow start poor form and injury, I think he took a bit of the bad form there but he's playing well now. He may have needed some time to figure his shit out and he will be okay for them.
I liked Wellers though, but I guess both parties needed a fresh start there.
I wish Freeman all the best though, I hope he can get out on the park and have a good career. I would have loved that to have been at Collingwood, but it seems for now his body isn't going to let him get out there to prove himself just yet.
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Redlight
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
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| AN_Inkling wrote: | | Redlight wrote: | | AN_Inkling wrote: | | ^^I sense sarcasm, but this view does have some validity. Under Buckley we've lost far more players that we would have preferred to keep than under our previous coach, of which Freeman is an example. It's accelerated both our decline and our rebuild. How much of this is caused by a problem with player management, the introduction of free agency or unavoidable friction after the poorly judged handover is the question. |
Apart from Heater, I can't think of a single Pie playing for another club that has done anything of note. The trades are looking almost entirely in our favour. |
I'd say all of Shaw, Wellingham, Lumumba and Beams have done something and would be part of our team now, and despite his injuries losing Thomas was still a big deal.
Though I'm not saying that we lost out in the trades, these moves have "accelerated both our decline and our rebuild". They were important to bring in some more young players. Still, it didn't seem to be a concerted effort for regeneration, but more a bunch of players who didn't want to play for our club. These were players who were playing regular senior footy, but wanted out. That's a concern and is one of the reasons why we have fallen as far as we have, it tears at the fabric of the playing group. |
There's some truth in that, but the fact that most of them have had little impact elsewhere would indicate that the club was right to let them go. It's not as if these players have suddenly improved massively, which is what you'd expect if they were badly coached.
Daisy has been a train wreck (as he had been in his last two years at the Pies), in retrospect matching Carlton's offer would've been silly.
I think Lumumba was a victim of 'Collingwood Celebrity Syndrome'. When he was on our list he was forever being sought out for his opinions on this or that, purely because of profile. Since he's been at the dees? Nothing. Either he's learnt something, or the press really aren't interested in him now that he's no longer in black and white. I bet that irks him a little.
Wellingham is very talented, but he's been a bit part player in the west. I don't think he's played anywhere near as well as he did in his last few years at the Pies.
Dawes? Nothing.
Beams? Great player but apparently left for family reasons (or cash, or the coach, you be the judge). We lost him and Lumumba but ended up with Varcoe, Crisp and Greenwood out of that deal, so not a terrible result.
Heath Shaw is what? 30? We traded him for Taylor Adams who's 22, so in two years from now when Heater is done, even if Adams doesn't improve, we'll be in front.
From what I understand the club board saw the writing on the wall in 2013 and started working on a rebuild. They obviously earmarked some players as being expendable, unless the price was right, and I think, on the whole, they've done pretty well so far.
If 1990 showed me anything, it's that hanging on the premiership players can bite you on the backside. Given where we were, trading out those players while they still had some value was probably wise. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| Sadly, Freeman, as the super fast midfielder he was was in the under 18s, is exactly the kid of player we need now. |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | Sadly, Freeman, as the super fast midfielder he was was in the under 18s, is exactly the kid of player we need now. |
Yeah but would he be it, with all his injuries?
Good luck to the kid. Yeah he probably didn't do right by us, but I don't like to see injuries. How about we just try and win with skill guys!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Glad to hear it. |
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mudlark
Joined: 19 Mar 2002
Location: Maroochydore Qld
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| Bob Sugar wrote: | | The Prototype wrote: | | Bob Sugar wrote: | | Wasn't Wellingham AA last year? Pretty sure he made the squad anyway, I could be trippin though. |
He didn't make either that I could find, I did a google search and he didn't make the squad or the team. |
Yeah didn't make the squad, he played some good footy for WC though, not saying we lost the trade because we really didn't have a choice and the Eagles first rounder was was as good as we could've hoped for. |
YEAH!!! Had a "Ripper"Grand final when he was needed,Didn't he??? Perhaps you can look it up as well as AA???Spud.Turnover king and STILL doing it. |
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The Prototype
Paint my face with a good-for-nothin smile.
Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Location: Hobart, Tasmania
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| mudlark wrote: | | YEAH!!! Had a "Ripper"Grand final when he was needed,Didn't he??? Perhaps you can look it up as well as AA???Spud.Turnover king and STILL doing it. |
To be fair half the West Coast side failed to show for the Grand Final as well, so I guess he was just following a team tactic. 
Though it doesn't seem he can trampoline that well either, but I guess that's a different discussion.
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WarrenerraW
Joined: 18 Apr 2008
Location: Melbourne
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These weren't just players we thought were expendable. In my opinion they were players who no longer wanted to be apart of our club and wanted out for various reasons. Maybe they had issues with the club or coach or playing group, who knows...
I think Daisy was money hungry and missed his daddy - MM. I'm sure he was one of the ringleaders who instigated the 'keep MM as coach petition' that was going around at the time of the changeover. I doubt he's friendly with Buck's either. He hasn't accomplished much - if anything - since he went to the scum. He's injury prone and his best is well beyond him now. He'll be serviceable for them and that's about it.
Lamumba is a big sook. He could still be at our club had his form and behaviour not been so erratic. He strikes me as someone who is very egotistical and self-centred. Maybe I'm wrong but that's the impression I got from him. His form towards the end was sloppy. He wasn't performing well and was turning the ball over of a regular basis. Probably needed a fresh start.
Dawes was cooked years ago. He failed to adjust to the rigours of modern football. He'll be a bit player - for casey, and that's about it.
Wellingham is a good player but a loose cannon in terms of his behaviour on and off the field. I think the club got sick of that. He'd go missing in games and maybe needed a new environment to kick him back into gear.
Beams supposedly wanted out for "family reasons" but I believe that was an excuse to cash in - like daisy. Didn't have the balls to front the copeland either. Anyone from the keep MM brigade who had a personality clash with Buck's.
Shaw signed his death warrant in the final vs port. It's a shame because he's exactly what's missing from our backline right now. Had experience, leadership and skill, but another loose cannon. His onfield behaviour was pretty terrible and was another loose canon.
It's a shame we couldn't develop Kennedy at all. He seems to be doing well at melbum. Doubt Freeman will ever play a game. His hamstrings are recurrent will continue to pop for as long as he plays the game. Not everyone's body is able to sustain the pressure of afl football.
Crisp performed well last year but dropped off a bit this year. I still think we can develop him into a pretty good player. Greenwood had set backs last year but has settled now into the team. He'll easily play 100 games. Adams will be a 10 year player. Hard, tough and tenacious. |
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themonk
Joined: 02 Mar 2004
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| WarrenerraW wrote: | These weren't just players we thought were expendable. In my opinion they were players who no longer wanted to be apart of our club and wanted out for various reasons. Maybe they had issues with the club or coach or playing group, who knows...
I think Daisy was money hungry and missed his daddy - MM. I'm sure he was one of the ringleaders who instigated the 'keep MM as coach petition' that was going around at the time of the changeover. I doubt he's friendly with Buck's either. He hasn't accomplished much - if anything - since he went to the scum. He's injury prone and his best is well beyond him now. He'll be serviceable for them and that's about it.
Lamumba is a big sook. He could still be at our club had his form and behaviour not been so erratic. He strikes me as someone who is very egotistical and self-centred. Maybe I'm wrong but that's the impression I got from him. His form towards the end was sloppy. He wasn't performing well and was turning the ball over of a regular basis. Probably needed a fresh start.
Dawes was cooked years ago. He failed to adjust to the rigours of modern football. He'll be a bit player - for casey, and that's about it.
Wellingham is a good player but a loose cannon in terms of his behaviour on and off the field. I think the club got sick of that. He'd go missing in games and maybe needed a new environment to kick him back into gear.
Beams supposedly wanted out for "family reasons" but I believe that was an excuse to cash in - like daisy. Didn't have the balls to front the copeland either. Anyone from the keep MM brigade who had a personality clash with Buck's.
Shaw signed his death warrant in the final vs port. It's a shame because he's exactly what's missing from our backline right now. Had experience, leadership and skill, but another loose cannon. His onfield behaviour was pretty terrible and was another loose canon.
It's a shame we couldn't develop Kennedy at all. He seems to be doing well at melbum. Doubt Freeman will ever play a game. His hamstrings are recurrent will continue to pop for as long as he plays the game. Not everyone's body is able to sustain the pressure of afl football.
Crisp performed well last year but dropped off a bit this year. I still think we can develop him into a pretty good player. Greenwood had set backs last year but has settled now into the team. He'll easily play 100 games. Adams will be a 10 year player. Hard, tough and tenacious. |
Nice summary, unfortunately in his last year Heater experienced a slight dip in form and the fact that Dids wasn't getting a game may have been hurting him too. However, the Shaw/Adams trade is a win for both clubs so we move on.
Developing the list and comradery amongst the players has been Buckley's strength, building a consistent and durable game plan? still an issue. |
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John Wren
"Look after the game. It means so much to so many."
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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for someone that has moved on he sure does get a bit of air time.
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