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inxs88
Joined: 17 Aug 2014
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derkd
Joined: 29 May 2013
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| Post subject: Re: Travis Cloke's 5th year |  |
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| inxs88 wrote: | http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-season-2016-pies-star-travis-cloke-set-for-50-per-cent-pay-cut-in-2017-20160427-goglwq.html
Interesting development... |
If the club could i think they would trade him at seasons end. Seeing as his current market value would be in the negative...i presume they figure they should at least be trying to free up some cash.
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"To know nothing of events before your birth, is to forever remain a child" - Cicero (Roman Lawyer/Senator) 46 BCE. |
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5150 
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
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We'd be crazy to get rid of him next year, at worst he will be playing to his value and we free up $400k.
Its like paying a mortgage off for 29 years and going.... stuff the banks, I'll rent from now on... |
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jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| Covered off in other threads about Travis over the last few weeks. |
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AN_Inkling
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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| Post subject: Re: Travis Cloke's 5th year | |
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| derkd wrote: | | inxs88 wrote: | http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-season-2016-pies-star-travis-cloke-set-for-50-per-cent-pay-cut-in-2017-20160427-goglwq.html
Interesting development... |
If the club could i think they would trade him at seasons end. Seeing as his current market value would be in the negative...i presume they figure they should at least be trying to free up some cash. |
The negative talk around Trav has become ridiculous. He would still have plenty of value on the market. Freo would not hesitate to throw big money at him, except that they may be moving into rebuilding mode. Many other teams who'd be ecstatic to sign him if they had the opportunity, with the Power probably being at the top of the list, though I'd also include the Hawks, Suns, Dogs, any team that can fit another tall forward would love to have him.
And as 5150 says, with a front-loaded contract there's very little chance we trade him. Will be playing at a bargain price next year.
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Well done boys! |
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themonk
Joined: 02 Mar 2004
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| Freeing up $400k is great, a potential 1st round pick is the cherry on top. |
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derkd
Joined: 29 May 2013
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| Post subject: Re: Travis Cloke's 5th year | |
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| AN_Inkling wrote: | | derkd wrote: | | inxs88 wrote: | http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-season-2016-pies-star-travis-cloke-set-for-50-per-cent-pay-cut-in-2017-20160427-goglwq.html
Interesting development... |
If the club could i think they would trade him at seasons end. Seeing as his current market value would be in the negative...i presume they figure they should at least be trying to free up some cash. |
The negative talk around Trav has become ridiculous. He would still have plenty of value on the market. Freo would not hesitate to throw big money at him, except that they may be moving into rebuilding mode. Many other teams who'd be ecstatic to sign him if they had the opportunity, with the Power probably being at the top of the list, though I'd also include the Hawks, Suns, Dogs, any team that can fit another tall forward would love to have him.
And as 5150 says, with a front-loaded contract there's very little chance we trade him. Will be playing at a bargain price next year. |
I have nothing against those who stand by Cloke. Indeed twelve months ago i might have still agreed with you. But I don't even think Freo would have any interest in him now. The massive problem he faces have been building year on year. Last year, yes, he was spraying shots at goal but he managed at least to provide a contest. He is not even managing that now. I would love him to prove me wrong. I went and looked up his stats over the last few years (all the stats listed are total for season).
2012: K 259 M 157 H 71 G 59 B 34
2013: K 258 M 190 H 65 G 68 B 51
2014: K 187 M 137 H 58 G 39 B 30
2015: K 167 M 112 H 48 G 34 B 23
2016: K M H G B - sample size too small
Got the stats from All the stats website.
He has been on big money, and at the end of the day his output has not lived up to his price. Like i say i really hope he proves me wrong this season. From what i have seen thus far I have concerns.
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"To know nothing of events before your birth, is to forever remain a child" - Cicero (Roman Lawyer/Senator) 46 BCE. |
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3rd degree 
Joined: 22 Jun 2004
Location: John Wren's tote
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Regardless of what people think of Trav. He has been a great and at times frustrating servant . I think he still serves a role and may still offer us something.
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" Ohhh Banksy and out comes the Note Book".
www.facebook/the hybernators |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Post subject: Re: Travis Cloke's 5th year | |
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| derkd wrote: | | AN_Inkling wrote: | | derkd wrote: | | inxs88 wrote: | http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-season-2016-pies-star-travis-cloke-set-for-50-per-cent-pay-cut-in-2017-20160427-goglwq.html
Interesting development... |
If the club could i think they would trade him at seasons end. Seeing as his current market value would be in the negative...i presume they figure they should at least be trying to free up some cash. |
The negative talk around Trav has become ridiculous. He would still have plenty of value on the market. Freo would not hesitate to throw big money at him, except that they may be moving into rebuilding mode. Many other teams who'd be ecstatic to sign him if they had the opportunity, with the Power probably being at the top of the list, though I'd also include the Hawks, Suns, Dogs, any team that can fit another tall forward would love to have him.
And as 5150 says, with a front-loaded contract there's very little chance we trade him. Will be playing at a bargain price next year. |
I have nothing against those who stand by Cloke. Indeed twelve months ago i might have still agreed with you. But I don't even think Freo would have any interest in him now. The massive problem he faces have been building year on year. Last year, yes, he was spraying shots at goal but he managed at least to provide a contest. He is not even managing that now. I would love him to prove me wrong. I went and looked up his stats over the last few years (all the stats listed are total for season).
2012: K 259 M 157 H 71 G 59 B 34
2013: K 258 M 190 H 65 G 68 B 51
2014: K 187 M 137 H 58 G 39 B 30
2015: K 167 M 112 H 48 G 34 B 23
2016: K M H G B - sample size too small
Got the stats from All the stats website.
He has been on big money, and at the end of the day his output has not lived up to his price. Like i say i really hope he proves me wrong this season. From what i have seen thus far I have concerns. |
Yes, well 12 months ago, you'd have needed a serious brain-disfunction not to have agreed with those who then stood by Cloke.
It's just intellectually lazy to look at these statistics year on year, with complete disregard to his game by game performance.
If you had looked at any of my many posts since early last season about his performance, you would understand that what the stats actually show is that after 11 rounds in 2015, he was on career-record goal-scoring pace, going at about 3 goals per game. He then fell away because of injury (playing only 6 of the last 11 games) and, on a couple of occasions, some particularly inaccurate kicking (eg, in the Hawthorn game, where it's fair to say that had he kicked 3.2, instead of 1.4, he would have been worth the 3 Brownlow votes, given his massive stats in all other facets of the game that day).
Hate Travis all you like - but I am just sick and tired of people pretending that he "hasn't been any good" for some time. He has played about 6 or 7 ordinary games since the middle of the 2015 season and, amongst those, a couple (not a lot - just a couple) of poor ones.
Also, the suggestion that "his output has not lived up to his price" is outrageous and insulting. Have a look at the money some of the children playing in the forward-line at other clubs are on - for the most part, they've done nothing to justify being paid way more than Cloke and, statistically, we know they never will.
Whatever happens with Cloke going forward, he is - in every way - an all-time Collingwood great. In assessing what to do with him from here, there is simply no need to be disrespectful. He is one of the top 3 centre-half forwards that ever wore a Collingwood jumper (probably the best - he's certainly played way more games there for the Club than anyone else of any significance - but I'm leaving it open for you to think about who is on your short-list).
Great CHFs traditionally have not grown on trees. Typically, Collingwood hasn't had one. The chances are that - whatever your hopes, aspirations and wishes are for them are - none of the guys on the list will do half what Travis Cloke has done. So, to the extent that you are excited to embrace the prospect of trading or sacking Cloke, just be careful that you aren't bringing on a decade or more of a CHF position with a "Position Vacant" sign on it. Remember all those clever people back in the 1993/1994 off-season who said we didn't need Daicos because Brad Plain was better? |
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AN_Inkling
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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^^Correct. The other thing to mention is that the decline of the rest of our team has a direct affect on Cloke's performance. He remains a powerful one on one player who is rarely put in that situation because of our upfield troubles. There's no doubt that most clubs would happily put up the money to sign him.
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Well done boys! |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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I agree. he is a true Collingwood great!
only Collingwood fans expect great CHFs to play forever to the potential of their peak.
Check out Dermie's form post 28, or for that matter nearly every CHf in the history of the game!!!!!!
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Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| E wrote: | I agree. he is a true Collingwood great!
only Collingwood fans expect great CHFs to play forever to the potential of their peak.
Check out Dermie's form post 28, or for that matter nearly every CHf in the history of the game!!!!!! |
I don't expect anything - and I am happy for people to engage in any debate they like about what should be done with Cloke. I just don't think it should be done in a disrespectful way (because that is just unnecessary) or in a way which is predicated upon patently incorrect assumptions. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| There's no way Cloke should be regarded as one of our great forwards. That tag belongs to Coventry, Todd, Weideman, McKenna and Carman. These guys genuinely won games off their own boot and delivered under pressure. Cloke has been a serviceable player but his shocking goal kicking has broken the hearts of too many fans and lost us too many important games - including the first 2010 Grand Final - for him ever to be regarded as great. Now he is in serious decline and we should sell him at the first opportunity. He had enormous talent, but never quite delivered as he should have. I blame Demir. |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | There's no way Cloke should be regarded as one of our great forwards. That tag belongs to Coventry, Todd, Weideman, McKenna and Carman. These guys genuinely won games off their own boot and delivered under pressure. Cloke has been a serviceable player but his shocking goal kicking has broken the hearts of too many fans and lost us too many important games - including the first 2010 Grand Final - for him ever to be regarded as great. Now he is in serious decline and we should sell him at the first opportunity. He had enormous talent, but never quite delivered as he should have. I blame Demir. |
Is Ant considered a great?
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Magpietothemax 
magpietothemax
Joined: 28 Apr 2013
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[quote="AN_Inkling"]^^Correct. The other thing to mention is that the decline of the rest of our team has a direct affect on Cloke's performance. He remains a powerful one on one player who is rarely put in that situation because of our upfield troubles. There's no doubt that most clubs would happily put up the money to sign him.[/quote
Utterly correct. Cloke's performances have declined as a result of the decline in our midfield power. Last year, our delivery into the forward 50 was often abysmal. How can Travis Cloke be expected to keep performing at an elite level when the quality of our delivery was wretched? This year, our delivery efficiency has been at bottom 4 level? It is absurd, and grossly unfair, to condemn Cloke for failing to maintain elite standards under these conditions? Our transition this year has likewise been disastrous: slow, haphazard, asystemic. Again, this has been detrimental to Travis Cloke's ability to impact games. This whole saga of dropping Cloke has from the very beginning appeared to me as a diversion: the real issue has been our lack of structure and our lack of tackling pressure, and our catastrophic lack of midfield power. Up until the Essendon game, our midfield has been smashed : why is Travis Cloke being singled out ? How can Buckley seriously expect him to make a huge impact under these conditions?
Against Essendon, our midfield was dominant. How does anyone know how Cloke would have gone on Anzac Day?
Taking nothing away from Mason Cox - I am thrilled with his debut - I find it appalling how Travis Cloke has been treated. Our team has been playign horribly, and Cloke has impacted games as much as he conceivably could within the narrow framework imposed by the terrible qualityof our play.
Those who wish to trade Travis Cloke, have either forgotten, or never fully appreciated his ability.
My fear is that Buckley is attempting to make life really miserable for Travis Cloke in order to drive him out of the club. Buckley could well be in the process of getting rid of yet another Premiership player, this time a Collingwood legend who, if coached in the right way, could still be a powerful force in any forward line |
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