Don't sack Buckley
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thompsoc
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| jackcass wrote: | | What'sinaname wrote: | | I understand your point Lazza. The point is, there is not plenty of time after the season. How do you expect to interview and select the right coach and then bring them in to the club in time for the trade period. |
That's creating an artificially constricted timeline to suit your own argument. Hine oversees trading and drafting. No doubt the coach would have input but I'd assume the decision on who to target and who will be getting ousted will essentially be made long before the end of the season. |
Mr Hine has run out of beans.
He should go back into the mush kitchen.
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we don't eat our own at collingwood we just allow them to foul our nest. |
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What'sinaname 
Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Living rent free
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| jackcass wrote: | | What'sinaname wrote: | | I understand your point Lazza. The point is, there is not plenty of time after the season. How do you expect to interview and select the right coach and then bring them in to the club in time for the trade period. |
That's creating an artificially constricted timeline to suit your own argument. Hine oversees trading and drafting. No doubt the coach would have input but I'd assume the decision on who to target and who will be getting ousted will essentially be made long before the end of the season. |
No it's not. A new coach needs the time to evaluate the playing list. Unlike an existing coach who would know the strength / weakness / needs. A new coach needs to be appointed ASAP so they can understand the list and make an informed choice at the trade table.
Hine needs to know what type of game plan the new coach wants to implement to know who to trade for and draft. |
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thompsoc
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| What'sinaname wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | What'sinaname wrote: | | I understand your point Lazza. The point is, there is not plenty of time after the season. How do you expect to interview and select the right coach and then bring them in to the club in time for the trade period. |
That's creating an artificially constricted timeline to suit your own argument. Hine oversees trading and drafting. No doubt the coach would have input but I'd assume the decision on who to target and who will be getting ousted will essentially be made long before the end of the season. |
No it's not. A new coach needs the time to evaluate the playing list. Unlike an existing coach who would know the strength / weakness / needs. A new coach needs to be appointed ASAP so they can understand the list and make an informed choice at the trade table.
Hine needs to know what type of game plan the new coach wants to implement to know who to trade for and draft. |
Bux spent 2 years as Micks assistant so in reality he is into his 7th year of getting to know the players
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we don't eat our own at collingwood we just allow them to foul our nest. |
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PyreneesPie 
PyreneesPie
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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| RudeBoy wrote: | I'm standing by Bucks. We have a lot of young and new players who will only get better throughout this season. Naturally I'm disappointed we have not performed as well as expected. Clearly, the club, and probably the players (I know I did), got a bit ahead of themselves, and we are now experiencing a reality check.
Perhaps our biggest problem is our structure, particularly up forward. For most of the past decade, we have built our forward line around Cloke. It's time to give up on him and look elsewhere. A combination of Cox, Crocker, Moore, Fasolo, Broomhead and hopefully eventually Elliott should be our new template.
We can obviously still turn this season around and make the 8, but in all honesty, that's not so important - after all, we were never going to win the flag this year. However, if we can continue to develop Grundy, De Goey, Moore, Treloar, Broomhead, Cox, Aish, and possibly even Wills, Sier, Crocker and Phillips, then we may yet be in a great position to actually contend for a Premiership in 2017-18.
The "perceptive fellow" will obviously start moaning that we're always developing and never delivering, and there may be some truth to that, but the fact is that building a Premiership team is an inexact science, and predictions of future performance rarely turn out as expected. Sometimes it takes a bit longer to develop a team and sometimes it comes on more quickly. At the end of the day, we have to be realists and admit that right now, we have too many players on our list who have enormous potential, but are yet to fully deliver. I think Bucks is the right man to develop these players and you've only got to listen to players like Treloar talk about how they love playing for him, to know the players are on-side with the coach.
Go Bucks and go Pies! |
A brilliant post. In reality, very few progressions occur in an even upward trajectory, least of all developing football teams. Which team was it that couldn't string two good performances together in a row for the past few seasons? Oh yeah, it was the Kangaroos. |
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Bob Sugar
Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Location: Benalla
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| What'sinaname wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | What'sinaname wrote: | | I understand your point Lazza. The point is, there is not plenty of time after the season. How do you expect to interview and select the right coach and then bring them in to the club in time for the trade period. |
That's creating an artificially constricted timeline to suit your own argument. Hine oversees trading and drafting. No doubt the coach would have input but I'd assume the decision on who to target and who will be getting ousted will essentially be made long before the end of the season. |
No it's not. A new coach needs the time to evaluate the playing list. Unlike an existing coach who would know the strength / weakness / needs. A new coach needs to be appointed ASAP so they can understand the list and make an informed choice at the trade table.
Hine needs to know what type of game plan the new coach wants to implement to know who to trade for and draft. |
Spot on.
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Defender...........
On the day before the first, Daicos created God.
You like this. |
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Tezza23
Joined: 16 Mar 2014
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| RudeBoy wrote: | I'm standing by Bucks. We have a lot of young and new players who will only get better throughout this season.
That is what you hope to see, but there is no guarantee it will happen. How many of the young players have got better over the last three years. I agree that most have not hit their prime per se but seriously for the majority any improvement has only been marginal
Naturally I'm disappointed we have not performed as well as expected. Clearly, the club, and probably the players (I know I did), got a bit ahead of themselves, and we are now experiencing a reality check.
Perhaps our biggest problem is our structure, particularly up forward. For most of the past decade, we have built our forward line around Cloke. It's time to give up on him and look elsewhere. A combination of Cox, Crocker, Moore, Fasolo, Broomhead and hopefully eventually Elliott should be our new template.
We can obviously still turn this season around and make the 8, but in all honesty, that's not so important - after all, we were never going to win the flag this year. However, if we can continue to develop Grundy, De Goey, Moore, Treloar, Broomhead, Cox, Aish, and possibly even Wills, Sier, Crocker and Phillips, then we may yet be in a great position to actually contend for a Premiership in 2017-18.
History will show this to be a pipedream. I can't think of one side from the last 25 years who has just come into 8 for the first time and won a flag. Not even a side with their second year of finals
The "perceptive fellow" will obviously start moaning that we're always developing and never delivering, and there may be some truth to that, but the fact is that building a Premiership team is an inexact science, and predictions of future performance rarely turn out as expected. Sometimes it takes a bit longer to develop a team and sometimes it comes on more quickly. At the end of the day, we have to be realists and admit that right now, we have too many players on our list who have enormous potential, but are yet to fully deliver. I think Bucks is the right man to develop these players and you've only got to listen to players like Treloar talk about how they love playing for him, to know the players are on-side with the coach.
When was the last time you heard a player bag his current coach. I can recall plenty of coaches hated by their players, eg Hird, Knights, McCartney, McKenna, and Sanderson, but the players never said anything publicly. On a logical note Treloar may genuinely love playing for Bucks, but never assume that he is speaking for the rest of the team on anything related to other players opinions.
Go Bucks and go Pies! |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| Tezza23 wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | I'm standing by Bucks. We have a lot of young and new players who will only get better throughout this season.
Naturally I'm disappointed we have not performed as well as expected. Clearly, the club, and probably the players (I know I did), got a bit ahead of themselves, and we are now experiencing a reality check.
Perhaps our biggest problem is our structure, particularly up forward. For most of the past decade, we have built our forward line around Cloke. It's time to give up on him and look elsewhere. A combination of Cox, Crocker, Moore, Fasolo, Broomhead and hopefully eventually Elliott should be our new template.
We can obviously still turn this season around and make the 8, but in all honesty, that's not so important - after all, we were never going to win the flag this year. However, if we can continue to develop Grundy, De Goey, Moore, Treloar, Broomhead, Cox, Aish, and possibly even Wills, Sier, Crocker and Phillips, then we may yet be in a great position to actually contend for a Premiership in 2017-18.
The "perceptive fellow" will obviously start moaning that we're always developing and never delivering, and there may be some truth to that, but the fact is that building a Premiership team is an inexact science, and predictions of future performance rarely turn out as expected. Sometimes it takes a bit longer to develop a team and sometimes it comes on more quickly. At the end of the day, we have to be realists and admit that right now, we have too many players on our list who have enormous potential, but are yet to fully deliver. I think Bucks is the right man to develop these players and you've only got to listen to players like Treloar talk about how they love playing for him, to know the players are on-side with the coach.
Go Bucks and go Pies! |
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Please do not insert your own words within my quotes as if they were mine. Thank you. |
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John Wren 
"Look after the game. It means so much to so many."
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | Tezza23 wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | I'm standing by Bucks. We have a lot of young and new players who will only get better throughout this season.
Naturally I'm disappointed we have not performed as well as expected. Clearly, the club, and probably the players (I know I did), got a bit ahead of themselves, and we are now experiencing a reality check.
Perhaps our biggest problem is our structure, particularly up forward. For most of the past decade, we have built our forward line around Cloke. It's time to give up on him and look elsewhere. A combination of Cox, Crocker, Moore, Fasolo, Broomhead and hopefully eventually Elliott should be our new template.
We can obviously still turn this season around and make the 8, but in all honesty, that's not so important - after all, we were never going to win the flag this year. However, if we can continue to develop Grundy, De Goey, Moore, Treloar, Broomhead, Cox, Aish, and possibly even Wills, Sier, Crocker and Phillips, then we may yet be in a great position to actually contend for a Premiership in 2017-18.
The "perceptive fellow" will obviously start moaning that we're always developing and never delivering, and there may be some truth to that, but the fact is that building a Premiership team is an inexact science, and predictions of future performance rarely turn out as expected. Sometimes it takes a bit longer to develop a team and sometimes it comes on more quickly. At the end of the day, we have to be realists and admit that right now, we have too many players on our list who have enormous potential, but are yet to fully deliver. I think Bucks is the right man to develop these players and you've only got to listen to players like Treloar talk about how they love playing for him, to know the players are on-side with the coach.
Go Bucks and go Pies! |
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Please do not insert your own words within my quotes as if they were mine. Thank you. |
clearly still learning the nick's system. is only into his third year so you should expect some inconsistencies. is he a bad recruit? doesn't know what he is doing? poor form perhaps? or is it the coaching? who's coaching him? 
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Purveyor of sanctimonious twaddle. |
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What'sinaname
Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Living rent free
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| RudeBoy wrote: | I'm standing by Bucks. We have a lot of young and new players who will only get better throughout this season. Naturally I'm disappointed we have not performed as well as expected. Clearly, the club, and probably the players (I know I did), got a bit ahead of themselves, and we are now experiencing a reality check.
Perhaps our biggest problem is our structure, particularly up forward. For most of the past decade, we have built our forward line around Cloke. It's time to give up on him and look elsewhere. A combination of Cox, Crocker, Moore, Fasolo, Broomhead and hopefully eventually Elliott should be our new template.
We can obviously still turn this season around and make the 8, but in all honesty, that's not so important - after all, we were never going to win the flag this year. However, if we can continue to develop Grundy, De Goey, Moore, Treloar, Broomhead, Cox, Aish, and possibly even Wills, Sier, Crocker and Phillips, then we may yet be in a great position to actually contend for a Premiership in 2017-18.
The "perceptive fellow" will obviously start moaning that we're always developing and never delivering, and there may be some truth to that, but the fact is that building a Premiership team is an inexact science, and predictions of future performance rarely turn out as expected. Sometimes it takes a bit longer to develop a team and sometimes it comes on more quickly. At the end of the day, we have to be realists and admit that right now, we have too many players on our list who have enormous potential, but are yet to fully deliver. I think Bucks is the right man to develop these players and you've only got to listen to players like Treloar talk about how they love playing for him, to know the players are on-side with the coach.
Go Bucks and go Pies! |
If you really believe that we can challenge in 2017/2018, then we should be beating the best teams in 2016. To win flag, you have to beat 3 or 4 top 8 teams in a row. You would think you should be able to beat one of them the year before you think you are premiership ready.
Let's see how close we are in two weeks when we play WC.
Personally, I think you're delusional to think we'll go from this rabble to a premiership threat within 12 months. |
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jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| What'sinaname wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | What'sinaname wrote: | | I understand your point Lazza. The point is, there is not plenty of time after the season. How do you expect to interview and select the right coach and then bring them in to the club in time for the trade period. |
That's creating an artificially constricted timeline to suit your own argument. Hine oversees trading and drafting. No doubt the coach would have input but I'd assume the decision on who to target and who will be getting ousted will essentially be made long before the end of the season. |
No it's not. A new coach needs the time to evaluate the playing list. Unlike an existing coach who would know the strength / weakness / needs. A new coach needs to be appointed ASAP so they can understand the list and make an informed choice at the trade table.
Hine needs to know what type of game plan the new coach wants to implement to know who to trade for and draft. |
Yeah.... nah! End of season allows more than enough time to implement a full process and get a coach in place and involved. You're just assuming that as you think we're terrible that a new coach will want to implement wholesale changes as with Bolton at Carlton, but our list is sound, just needs time. |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| What'sinaname wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | I'm standing by Bucks. We have a lot of young and new players who will only get better throughout this season. Naturally I'm disappointed we have not performed as well as expected. Clearly, the club, and probably the players (I know I did), got a bit ahead of themselves, and we are now experiencing a reality check.
Perhaps our biggest problem is our structure, particularly up forward. For most of the past decade, we have built our forward line around Cloke. It's time to give up on him and look elsewhere. A combination of Cox, Crocker, Moore, Fasolo, Broomhead and hopefully eventually Elliott should be our new template.
We can obviously still turn this season around and make the 8, but in all honesty, that's not so important - after all, we were never going to win the flag this year. However, if we can continue to develop Grundy, De Goey, Moore, Treloar, Broomhead, Cox, Aish, and possibly even Wills, Sier, Crocker and Phillips, then we may yet be in a great position to actually contend for a Premiership in 2017-18.
The "perceptive fellow" will obviously start moaning that we're always developing and never delivering, and there may be some truth to that, but the fact is that building a Premiership team is an inexact science, and predictions of future performance rarely turn out as expected. Sometimes it takes a bit longer to develop a team and sometimes it comes on more quickly. At the end of the day, we have to be realists and admit that right now, we have too many players on our list who have enormous potential, but are yet to fully deliver. I think Bucks is the right man to develop these players and you've only got to listen to players like Treloar talk about how they love playing for him, to know the players are on-side with the coach.
Go Bucks and go Pies! |
If you really believe that we can challenge in 2017/2018, then we should be beating the best teams in 2016. To win flag, you have to beat 3 or 4 top 8 teams in a row. You would think you should be able to beat one of them the year before you think you are premiership ready.
Let's see how close we are in two weeks when we play WC.
Personally, I think you're delusional to think we'll go from this rabble to a premiership threat within 12 months. |
And here I was thinking Richmond were widely touted by the experts as a premiership contender in 2016... hmmmm, go figure! |
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Yarra Falls End
Joined: 26 Dec 2004
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| What'sinaname wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | I'm standing by Bucks. We have a lot of young and new players who will only get better throughout this season. Naturally I'm disappointed we have not performed as well as expected. Clearly, the club, and probably the players (I know I did), got a bit ahead of themselves, and we are now experiencing a reality check.
Perhaps our biggest problem is our structure, particularly up forward. For most of the past decade, we have built our forward line around Cloke. It's time to give up on him and look elsewhere. A combination of Cox, Crocker, Moore, Fasolo, Broomhead and hopefully eventually Elliott should be our new template.
We can obviously still turn this season around and make the 8, but in all honesty, that's not so important - after all, we were never going to win the flag this year. However, if we can continue to develop Grundy, De Goey, Moore, Treloar, Broomhead, Cox, Aish, and possibly even Wills, Sier, Crocker and Phillips, then we may yet be in a great position to actually contend for a Premiership in 2017-18.
The "perceptive fellow" will obviously start moaning that we're always developing and never delivering, and there may be some truth to that, but the fact is that building a Premiership team is an inexact science, and predictions of future performance rarely turn out as expected. Sometimes it takes a bit longer to develop a team and sometimes it comes on more quickly. At the end of the day, we have to be realists and admit that right now, we have too many players on our list who have enormous potential, but are yet to fully deliver. I think Bucks is the right man to develop these players and you've only got to listen to players like Treloar talk about how they love playing for him, to know the players are on-side with the coach.
Go Bucks and go Pies! |
If you really believe that we can challenge in 2017/2018, then we should be beating the best teams in 2016. To win flag, you have to beat 3 or 4 top 8 teams in a row. You would think you should be able to beat one of them the year before you think you are premiership ready.
Let's see how close we are in two weeks when we play WC.
Personally, I think you're delusional to think we'll go from this rabble to a premiership threat within 12 months. |
Were we not a rabble after Rd 8 2009?
Sitting 3-5 coming off consecutive losses to St Kilda by 88 pts and Carlton by 51 pts. A stubborn coach who had no plan B and was playing his favourites week in week out.
The side that lost to Carlton had 13 premiership players + Leon. |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| jackcass wrote: | | Yeah.... nah! End of season allows more than enough time to implement a full process and get a coach in place and involved. You're just assuming that as you think we're terrible that a new coach will want to implement wholesale changes as with Bolton at Carlton, but our list is sound, just needs time. |
Hmmnnn..........time, patience, logic, reality..........just a few words that the "perceptive fellow" have never been impressed with... 
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Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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What'sinaname
Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Living rent free
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| Yarra Falls End wrote: |
Were we not a rabble after Rd 8 2009?
Sitting 3-5 coming off consecutive losses to St Kilda by 88 pts and Carlton by 51 pts. A stubborn coach who had no plan B and was playing his favourites week in week out.
The side that lost to Carlton had 13 premiership players + Leon. |
If I could like this, I would.
That's a great point and looking back, we were pretty crap in those first 8 rounds. That said, I can't recall why we were so bad early and how far off did we look in those first 3 losses. The loss to the Saints was expected as they were flying, and the loss to the Blues was bad. |
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CarringbushCigar 
Joined: 15 Nov 2007
Location: wherever I lay my beanie
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| What'sinaname wrote: | | Yarra Falls End wrote: |
Were we not a rabble after Rd 8 2009?
Sitting 3-5 coming off consecutive losses to St Kilda by 88 pts and Carlton by 51 pts. A stubborn coach who had no plan B and was playing his favourites week in week out.
The side that lost to Carlton had 13 premiership players + Leon. |
If I could like this, I would.
That's a great point and looking back, we were pretty crap in those first 8 rounds. That said, I can't recall why we were so bad early and how far off did we look in those first 3 losses. The loss to the Saints was expected as they were flying, and the loss to the Blues was bad. |
If i recall correctly, this is the time MM introduced the blockbuster fatigue concept.
Something Bucks doesn't have to worry about any more given that only 45thousand turn up to an exciting Melbourne side and a perfect day.
Apparently the soccer was more appealing for some so-called Collingwood supporters. |
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