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The great Travis Cloke debate

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Bob Sugar 



Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Location: Benalla

PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 5:06 pm
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Woods Of Ypres wrote:
If he cant get back into the side this year I would say he'd be off to Richmond for sure. all depends on the injury/form of the current forwards.


He'll be off to the Bombers for their second rounder IMO, Richmond don't need him.

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stui magpie Gemini

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Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 5:13 pm
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At the moment we have Grundy, Cox, White and Moore as the ruck and key forwards.

Witts is back from injury and showing good form in the VFL and Cloke is working at it.

2 months ago you would have had a person committed if they suggested White would be playing AFL while CLoke was in the VFL, but it happened.

3 tall forwards, all of whom can take a turn in the ruck, plus a ruckman is enough generally.

So currently I can't see witts getting back in unless Grundy or Cox get injured or lose form. If Trav starts banging the door down by dominating at VFL level he has to come back in, probably atm at the expense of Moore who could use a rest, or White who would on current form be unlucky to get dropped. Moore is only a kid. He will be a star one day but he isn't yet. He's a potential star. Trav has been an AA CHF and if he gets it back and can play the way Buckley wants him to, we have some good forward/ruck options to choose from.

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Bob Sugar 



Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Location: Benalla

PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 5:13 pm
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jackcass wrote:
RudeBoy wrote:
The selectors and I disagree with you inky.


Not too sure why the reality is so hard for some to accept... Compare their last 2 games at senior level...

Travis Cloke:
R3 16 disposals; 2 goals 1 behind
R4 15 disposals; 2 goals 0 behinds

Darcy Moore:
R8 7 disposals; 1-1
R9 12 disposal; 1-1

And their season to date...

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...d2=5&type=A&pid1=4023&pid2=1521&fid1=S&fid2=S

If we're playing Moore ahead of Cloke it is purely based on longer term potential but it is costing us at the moment. The sooner Cloke is back the better but that doesn't have to occur at the expense of Moore.


Have you ever heard of fwd pressure? You know, the thing that won us the game against the Cats? Have you ever seen Cloke apply it? Have you ever seen Moore apply it? Well there you go.

After some serious thought on this matter, I've decided Cox and Cloke can't play in the same fwd line, both to slow to put pressure on defenders on the way out.

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Lazza 



Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 5:15 pm
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Brenny wrote:
^ IMHO, Cox will start to get the No.1 defender soon enough. It could mean he loses a bit of form and may get rested.

Nothing wrong with that as he's a first year player. These things happen.

So far it doesn't look that way, but people were calling for Moores head a few weeks ago and saying give Cox a game.

Cloke will come back sooner or later. It's a matter of time. Last week was a good step forward for him.

I see massive upside in the three we have. All three tall forwards can ruck some, they can lead and move very well. None of them have Clokes tank and where he is very handy is as a high CHF/wing. Which is where I think he is best.


Exactly where Jessie White is playing his best footy for Collingwood at the moment.

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stui magpie Gemini

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Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 5:22 pm
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^

If White keeps his current form up, he is a valuable utility player. He can basically play anywhere in a pinch.

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Culprit Cancer



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne

PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 5:31 pm
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This could be what Cloke needs, pressure to perform. David would not want his son to take soft option. Buckley is talking to Travis and whilst he is not the sharpest tool in the shed you can see he is listening to the coach. Trav needs to put a month of hard work in and he will be back in the Seniors. A fit and firing Travis will be a massive in if we can retain our form.

As far as who would take him, Freo would be my bet. Their young forwards are soft so they keep Pav playing.
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Lazza 



Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 5:33 pm
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Culprit wrote:
This could be what Cloke needs, pressure to perform. David would not want his son to take soft option. Buckley is talking to Travis and whilst he is not the sharpest tool in the shed you can see he is listening to the coach. Trav needs to put a month of hard work in and he will be back in the Seniors. A fit and firing Travis will be a massive in if we can retain our form.


Who would you drop from the current team to play Cloke?

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Culprit Cancer



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne

PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 5:56 pm
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Lazza wrote:
Culprit wrote:
This could be what Cloke needs, pressure to perform. David would not want his son to take soft option. Buckley is talking to Travis and whilst he is not the sharpest tool in the shed you can see he is listening to the coach. Trav needs to put a month of hard work in and he will be back in the Seniors. A fit and firing Travis will be a massive in if we can retain our form.


Who would you drop from the current team to play Cloke?
As you know it comes down to form and it's amazing how the percieved pressure to keep your spot increase after a few wins. At the moment White is playing great football and is the one keeping Cloke out. Now White has to keep performing or he will be back in the Magoos and Cloke has to do all the hard yards to get into the Seniors. This is a win win situation. Mason Cox may need a rest and Cloke would come in. Once again it will come down to form.

A few weeks ago it looked like anyone would get a game. Now all of a sudden it's not that easy.
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Pies4shaw Leo

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Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 7:02 pm
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For anyone who is interested, here's the comparison of Cloke and Moore at Moore's present age:

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=5&playerStatus2=A&tid2=5&type=A&pid1=1521&pid2=4023&fid1=O&fid2=O

Cloke was, even then, achieving about his present career average for kicks per game. He was getting 12 kicks and 7 marks per game, compared with Moore's career average of 5 kicks and 4 marks.

Moore debuted more than 15 months older than Cloke did. Yet, even so, Cloke was criticised on Nick's after our round 1, 2006 loss for not making an impact as a power forward. He was, at that time, still 3 months younger than Moore was when Moore debuted last year.

By the time Cloke was Moore's present age, he was dominating his position, having games like this against top opposition in which he had 15 kicks, 10 marks and kicked 4 goals (out of 9) in a losing team against the eventual premiers: http://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/2007/040920070714.html

By the end of that same season, he had 14 kicks and 13 marks and kicked 3 goals 1 in a preliminary final loss by 5 points: http://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/2007/040920070921.html

In case anyone thinks the comparison is unfair because Cloke was precocious, here's the comparison between Riewoldt and Moore at the same age:

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=16&playerStatus2=A&tid2=5&type=A&pid1=63&pid2=4023&fid1=O&fid2=O
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Cam Capricorn

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Joined: 10 May 2002
Location: Springvale

PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 7:17 pm
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Brenny wrote:
^ IMHO, Cox will start to get the No.1 defender soon enough. .


Harry Taylor is offended by that comment Razz

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stui magpie Gemini

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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 7:18 pm
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Interesting comparison with Riewoldt. At the same age Moore has played a lot less games, averages less disposals yet has more goals per game.
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stoliboy Cancer



Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Sydney, NSW

PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 7:45 pm
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Travis Cloke's stats vs Williamstown

4 Goals
1 Behind
13 Disposals
11 Kicks
2 Handballs
5 Marks
4 Tackles
3 Hitouts
87 Dream Team

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Bob Sugar 



Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Location: Benalla

PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 7:51 pm
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stoliboy wrote:
Travis Cloke's stats vs Williamstown

4 Goals
1 Behind
13 Disposals
11 Kicks
2 Handballs
5 Marks
4 Tackles
3 Hitouts
87 Dream Team


That's what he should be doing in the AFL, he should be kicking cricket scores in the VFL, fact is he isn't anywhere near the contested marking threat he was a few years ago.

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RudeBoy 



Joined: 28 Nov 2005


PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 7:51 pm
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stoliboy wrote:
Travis Cloke's stats vs Williamstown

4 Goals
1 Behind
13 Disposals
11 Kicks
2 Handballs
5 Marks
4 Tackles
3 Hitouts
87 Dream Team


...vs Williamstown.
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Collingwood Crackerjack 



Joined: 28 Jul 2008
Location: Canberra

PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 7:59 pm
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Bob Sugar wrote:
jackcass wrote:
RudeBoy wrote:
The selectors and I disagree with you inky.


Not too sure why the reality is so hard for some to accept... Compare their last 2 games at senior level...

Travis Cloke:
R3 16 disposals; 2 goals 1 behind
R4 15 disposals; 2 goals 0 behinds

Darcy Moore:
R8 7 disposals; 1-1
R9 12 disposal; 1-1

And their season to date...

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...d2=5&type=A&pid1=4023&pid2=1521&fid1=S&fid2=S

If we're playing Moore ahead of Cloke it is purely based on longer term potential but it is costing us at the moment. The sooner Cloke is back the better but that doesn't have to occur at the expense of Moore.


Have you ever heard of fwd pressure? You know, the thing that won us the game against the Cats? Have you ever seen Cloke apply it? Have you ever seen Moore apply it? Well there you go.

After some serious thought on this matter, I've decided Cox and Cloke can't play in the same fwd line, both to slow to put pressure on defenders on the way out.


Have you meet a man called Jarryd Blair?

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