The great Travis Cloke debate

[Bob Sugar]

Seen tonight with Dickson what a real front man is supposed to do, played deep and shallow and was a clear asset to his team, IMO Cloke has one more week (a week he's lucky to have) to prove his worth, if he doesn't carve up the Saints tomorrow send him to the 2s, maybe, just maybe that might be the kick he needs.

[E]

[Redlight]

[rand corp]

Personally, I think that whilst Cloke has been very good over the last decade he is not in the class of a Pavlich or other Elite power forwards, simply because his kicking is just not good enough and never has been. Too many times I have seem the effect on the whole side when the game is on the line and he misses one or two gimme shots from the square.

Its a blight on his game and its been a blight on his career, that said he has usually been able to impact games with his size, strength, run, marking and long kicking and we desperately need that now. Don't know if its wear and tear, long term degenerative issue but at the moment he looks like an old man at the end of the line and we need to hope and pray that is not the case.

A few weeks ago we were looking at one of the most awesome forward lines in the league with Cloke, Elliot, Moore, Fas, Howe all lining up in the front six. Now its looking like we've lost one for most of the year, anothers had no preseason to speak of and is underdone, whilst Cloke is looking cooked.

And whilst we are at it, the much vaunted midfield of galacticos: Treloar, Aish, Pendles, Swan, Greenwood, Adams, Aish, DeGoey, Crisp, Steele et al cannot win a clearance!!! Hope its just a matter of needing to clique and they are only a matter of a week or two away form starting to click.

Couple of seasons ago we were drooling at the prospect of a mature Grundy and Witts dominating games, now they both look B Grade!

And now we get to a backline that look like a bunch from the ammos, jittery, inexperienced and error prone, why, what happened?

Langdon, Frost and Maynard look to have gone backwards in their development, Toovey looks cooked and we now seem totally reliant on keeping a guy fit who has hardly been able to get on the part for two seasons and a guy who just did his knee so he can join our star backline draftee on the sidelines for another year.

Either we cannot take a trick or we are getting it horribly wrong managing fitness and injury. Or maybe they are all just party boys trashing their bodies!!!!

FMD! I've got no idea anymore, thought we had the best list I'd seen six years and know half of them don't look ready and the other half can't get on the track.

[cityslick1]

Ha... a few misspelled player names and omissions (buddy says hi), plus a bit harsh on Ramsay, but I agree with most of your sentiments.

You forgot Sidey and Crisp from our midfield, but I too am at a bit of a loss as to why they haven't stood up so far. Tom Mitchell and Luke Parker made them look like rookies in round one, as well as looking like they were playing with cement shoes.

Adams looked primed to become a 30 possie predator, but so far has looked small, slow, and out-muscled, whilst fumbling and rushing his disposal under pressure. Greenwood has been serviceable, but again v slow, and Crisp seems to be basking in his new deal. Sidey has been a big out, Pendles is at 80% and scared of contact, whilst Aish managed one kick last week, whilst Lindsay hunter from his draft year has all of a sudden become a midfield star.

Grundy and Witts obv need more time (years), though Grundy looks like he may never be athletic or have a good tank, whilst Witts makes bad decisions, is always ball watching and has never used his height to dominate a game.

Maybe our coaches aren't as good at development as other clubs, because it just doesn't make any sense for so many talented players to be under delivering on their potential.

I also remember Brereton AND Carey going downhill from 29, so I would also cut Cloke some slack, especially as his Richmond game wasn't that bad, whilst praying that Hogan is holding off on his contract negotiations to move across from Gosch's to the Holden Centre...

Go pies

[Darkstranger]

I think right now we need him more in the the team than out, takes the best defender and gives our young up and coming forwards a better chance.

Got any others suggestions better than Cloke?

[neil]

[stoliboy]

Cloke averages 1.8 goals a game over his career. He's now averaged 0.5 goals in his last 8 games.

His last bag was against GWS in Round 11 2015 when he kick 5.2.
The week before against Melbourne in Round 10 2015 he kicked 7.0!

Since then:
2015
0.0 vs Fremantle (65 DT)
1.4 vs Hawthorn (99 DT)
0.0 vs Port Adelaide (43 DT)
0.0 vs West Coast (injured in first quarter)
1.1 vs Sydney (52 DT)
1.1 vs Richmond (61 DT)

2016
0.0 vs Sydney (32 DT)
1.3 vs Richmond (59 DT)

You could drop Cloke for the next game but he also kicked 5.4 against St Kilda last year.

Looking at our next few matches:
St Kilda
Melbourne
Essendon

If he doesn't perform in those matches he has to be dropped.

[think positive]

[think positive]

[think positive]

[stoid]

The Saints tend to play him into form, no matter how bad he is playing at the time. His last 3 games against them he's kicked 5.4, 5.2 and 4.5. That's 25 scrores in 3 games... And most likely a few ootf. He's having more than 8 shots per game against them. So don't be surprised if he kicks a bag against them. I hope he can get it all together today, have his 8 shots and kick 8.0. Here's to hoping.

[neil]

[yin-YANG]

I like the role Cloke played against the tigers… he had a few shots on goal but played up the ground and marked strongly and then delivered the ball into the fwd line quickly.

If he does the same this week - and kicks only 1 or 2 goals but Moore kicks the same or more then I think that is better than relying on Cloke as the Full Forward kicking 5.

He can be a pretty good shot from around 50 out so he should consider that his zone - but he comes forward now and then to worry the opposition.

Overall we need to utilise his greatest strength - marking and not rely on his weakness - kicking for goals. Getting the ball through the half forward line is always a challenge for all clubs and Cloke can make a huge difference by helping to deliver the ball into our forward line and generally ensure we have a big presence. Our young rucks and 3rd tall (WHite/Gault) are not much of a presence as yet!

[qldmagpie67]

Ben Dixon the other night on league teams said he had been working with Cloke on his approach and leg swing
He likened it to a golf swing where he believes Cloke is loading up his leg swing so much his hips don't get through over the leg and he's leaning back and reaching out to kick the ball creating to much leg swing and inaccuracy
It actually sounded logical and I remember thinking at various times Cloke was leaning back so far when kicking he looked awkward
Dixon said he's a mighty kick without the extra effort he just needs to keep working on it