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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| I could no longer care less about other people's views of Travis Cloke. However, anyone who thinks that Jesse White is a viable part of a competent AFL forward-line (or even a good-quality VFL forward-line) going forward needs to consider carefully whether they know enough about football to express any view on any subject, ever. |
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69 years a MAGPIE 
Joined: 12 Oct 2015
Location: Hong Kong
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I still believe Trav has a place at the 'Pies but a lot of people, including commentators, believe not. Ok, assuming he is traded, where does he go?
Adelaide, Cats, Hawks, GWS, GC, Eagles, Dogs - no
Brisbane, Carlton, Essendon, Freo, Dees, North, Tigers, Saints Swans are all possible, some more than others.
No one wants to trade their young guns so it would be someone like Rich, Zorko or Rockcliffe from the Lions just as an example, draft picks or a mix/exchange.
Thoughts anyone?
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No one needs to get hurt, it's only business. |
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Sir Alan of Didak 
Joined: 06 Apr 2008
Location: Pascoe Vale South
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| BucksIsFutureCoach wrote: | If you want to construct an argument that Cloke's position in the team is expendable based on comparison to four other tall forwards on the list, don't you think it's a bit dishonest comparing Cloke's weaknesses to the strengths of the other players named? Since you've highlighted Cloke's weaknesses as a player pretty well, I don't have to to repeat them, so instead I'll name the weaknesses of the other players mentioned:
White - goes missing at crucial times during a game
Gault - hasn't shown anything at AFL level and spends most of his time injured
Cox - new to AFL footy, lacks awareness of where to run to the footy and fumbles marks
Moore - doesn't get enough of the footy
Now explain to me without Cloke anti-bias why Cloke can't get a game ahead of at least two of the above mentioned players? |
Good post and yes, I agree, I probably should have balanced it out a little better. Bottom line is, footy is a numbers game and when judging Trav over the current season, his numbers are similiar or inferior to those of Moore, Cox and White. Gault is a rookie listed player, so doesn't really count. My point with Gault (and Wyatt) was that we're better off spending peanuts on back-up players and using the cash to improve our best 22.
2016 Champion Data ranking points:
Cloke - 61.8
Moore - 60.2
White - 68
Cox - 62.4
The upside of Moore and Cox is far, far, far greater than Cloke's, with Cox a legitimate tap ruckman enabling us to never have to play Witts in the same team as Grundy. White is of a similiar vintage to Cloke and a better comparison...and he has a better tank, giving Bucks greater flexibility on match-day whilst averaging 6.2 more ranking points per game.
I don't dislike Cloke, but if his numbers and conversion don't improve, then his superior natural talent counts for nothing. I want to see him succeed and eek out a further 3 years at the top level, but if he doesn't change with the game, he's well and truly going to be left behind.
"If" Bucks decides to bring Moore straight back in via the seniors, Cloke's in trouble. Having said that, Jameison was a late inclusion last time we played the scum and he gave Big Cox an absolute bath. What might save Clokey then, is if the club decide to give Grundy a chop out with the combination of White and Moore.
Either way, throw Fasolo, Elliot and Swan into that forward line and it's an all together different beast.
As for your comment pies4shaw, I was at the game on Friday night...were you? Jesse White keeps getting a game in the seniors buddy, so maybe, just maybe, you might be the one that doesn't know as much as you think you do.
Go Trav and go Pies!
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"Give Bucks a bit of a go mate, because when Bucks was the captain he carried that team for you, he played his guts out for you�
Last edited by Sir Alan of Didak on Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:27 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Cam 
Nick's BB Member #166
Joined: 10 May 2002
Location: Springvale
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Give Moore a run in the 2s to warm up, won't hurt him. Give Cloke another chance to impress.
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Get back on top. |
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King Monkey
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Location: On a journey to seek the scriptures of enlightenment....
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | I could no longer care less about other people's views of Travis Cloke. However, anyone who thinks that Jesse White is a viable part of a competent AFL forward-line (or even a good-quality VFL forward-line) going forward needs to consider carefully whether they know enough about football to express any view on any subject, ever. |
I've been impressed with Jesse White's noticeable improvements this year, but hasn't improved enough to make the above statement untrue.
Pretty much sums up my thoughts on the subject.
Although, the selection/non-selection of Cloke throughout the first half of this year has had very little to do with who his replacement was and more to do with jolting Cloke himself back into action.
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"I am a great sage, equal of heaven.
Grow stick, grow.
Fly cloud, fly.
Oh you are a dee-mon, I love to fiiight." |
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roar
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
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^ Yep, agree Cam. It's not like Moore was on fire before the injury, and he has been out enough to need one or two warm up games in the twos.
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kill for collingwood! |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| I would have traded Cloke at the end of 2012. |
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matrix10
Joined: 17 May 2009
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Loathe to say it- but watching last Friday night- it has become apparent that Trav is behind Cox, White and Moore as key forward option.
Mentioned in another thread- Trav lacked intensity in his attack on the player and ball for majority of the game.
There was a passage of play in the 3rd q (i think) where the ball was deep in our forward line. Trav was tentative going for the ball, and in his attack on the opposition- seemed to be afraid- and only going around 70%. In the same passage- Jesse White threw his body around like a maniac- tackling, scrambling for the ball.
There were some poor signs re: body language also- this improved in the last after he kicked that boundary goal.
IMO, Trav should be played as a high forward/wing similar to Richo in his latter days and Nick Reiwoldt this year.
I would like to see him get another run this week- as if he is dropped- then I fear that is the end of Trav at collingwood. |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| matrix10 wrote: | | I would like to see him get another run this week- as if he is dropped- then I fear that is the end of Trav at collingwood. |
Maybe I'm on my own here but I reckon Cloke deserves another game after his efforts against Freo. I would be astounded if he didn't get selected this week.
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Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| Lazza wrote: | | matrix10 wrote: | | I would like to see him get another run this week- as if he is dropped- then I fear that is the end of Trav at collingwood. |
Maybe I'm on my own here but I reckon Cloke deserves another game after his efforts against Freo. I would be astounded if he didn't get selected this week. |
I'd be astounded if Cloke got a senior game ahead of either Cox, Moore or White. |
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MagpieBat
Joined: 27 Nov 2010
Location: Brooding in a cave... somewhere... maybe...
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | I could no longer care less about other people's views of Travis Cloke. However, anyone who thinks that Corey Gault is a viable part of a competent AFL forward-line (or even a good-quality VFL forward-line) going forward needs to consider carefully whether they know enough about football to express any view on any subject, ever. |
I couldn't have said it better myself.
Also, merged.
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I am vengeance. I am the night. I am MagpieBat. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| MagpieBat wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | I could no longer care less about other people's views of Travis Cloke. However, anyone who thinks that Corey Gault is a viable part of a competent AFL forward-line (or even a good-quality VFL forward-line) going forward needs to consider carefully whether they know enough about football to express any view on any subject, ever. |
I couldn't have said it better myself.
Also, merged. |
Tend to agree. |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| matrix10 wrote: | Loathe to say it- but watching last Friday night- it has become apparent that Trav is behind Cox, White and Moore as key forward option.
Mentioned in another thread- Trav lacked intensity in his attack on the player and ball for majority of the game.
There was a passage of play in the 3rd q (i think) where the ball was deep in our forward line. Trav was tentative going for the ball, and in his attack on the opposition- seemed to be afraid- and only going around 70%. In the same passage- Jesse White threw his body around like a maniac- tackling, scrambling for the ball.
There were some poor signs re: body language also- this improved in the last after he kicked that boundary goal.
IMO, Trav should be played as a high forward/wing similar to Richo in his latter days and Nick Reiwoldt this year.
I would like to see him get another run this week- as if he is dropped- then I fear that is the end of Trav at collingwood. |
I'd like that too, but I'm not sure Trav has the smarts to play that role.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
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| Lazza wrote: | | matrix10 wrote: | | I would like to see him get another run this week- as if he is dropped- then I fear that is the end of Trav at collingwood. |
Maybe I'm on my own here but I reckon Cloke deserves another game after his efforts against Freo. I would be astounded if he didn't get selected this week. |
You're not alone. I'm with you. I have a leave pass from my wife to attend training on Thiursday. I'll pay close attention to Cloke on the training track. Might tell me whether he's in favour or out of favour with the selectors. |
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BEAMER09
Joined: 10 Apr 2009
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Cloke v Petrie last 6 games
Cloke 59 v Petrie 36 - kicks
Cloke 15 v Petrie 17 - h/balls
Cloke 74 v Petrie 53 - Disposals
Cloke 07 v Petrie 07 - Goals
Cloke 07 v Petrie 00 - Behinds
Cloke 32 v Petrie 28 - Marks
Cloke 17 v Petrie 02 - HitOuts
Cloke 11 v Petrie 16 - Tackles
Source - http://afltables.com/afl/stats/players
Of these 6 games - both teams have won 2 games and lost 4.
Cloke is 29 years old - Petrie is 33 years old.
One coach is supportive and full of encouragement.
One is respectful.
One can coach.
One is a Legend of the club.
One is a premiership player.
and one needs to be dropped and I one'der who that will be!!!
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COLLINGW09D |
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