The great Travis Cloke debate

[Pies4shaw]

I have repeatedly posted and discussed stats about his performances over his career in this and other threads. I posted again here only because yet another assertion was made that he hadn't been good for years. Contrary to that assertion, this time last year he had been starring, Collingwood had 8 wins and 3 losses, everyone (including me) was annoyed with Cloke's goal-kicking but he was actually in top-notch goal-kicking form (for him, with all his faults).

For goodness' sake, he won the Copeland Trophy kicking 39 goals in 25 games (last year, he kicked 34 in 17, even with his poor second half of the season) in a year Collinwood almost made the Grand Final and in 2010 they won the flag with him kicking 38 goals in 24 games.

The pressure on Cloke to kick goals has increased each year since 2011, as the production of the surrounding forwards has declined. I have been posting about this as a problem I perceive for over three years - see the "Scoring power" thread, presently on about page 3 of this forum. Cloke's poor form is a problem but it hasn't been a problem for as long as people want to pretend and, fwiw, I was identifying what I saw (and still see) as a much broader problem (basically, an absence of class in the forward line) during a season in which you describe Cloke as having dominated.

[The Prototype]

[Big T]

We will win without Cloke Monday.

[RudeBoy]

Even if he puts in a few good weeks in the VFL, Cloke's problem will be that our other talls are performing better than him. If Witts plays well on Monday, there's another tall he'll be competing against for a spot. Then there's Darcy Moore to return in a few weeks. One thing Moore, Cox and White can do is perform well as relieving ruckmen. Cloke is nowhere near as flexible as he once was and his inability to take contested marks - which were once his bread and butter - is the final nail in his AFL coffin imo.

[Pies4shaw]

It's just lucky that we've got so many good, productive forwards to take Cloke's place. It is a little surprising though, that our current season percentage betters only (in order from better percentage to worse) 1976, 2000, 1982, 1999, 1961, 2005, 1987 and 1942. All great years, in 2 of which we managed as many as 7 wins.

[think positive]

He's certainly trying today

[think positive]

Cloke Aish and brown all look good, they have had either 32 or 52 inside 50s for just 11 points. Maybe they stink, or maybe our defence is playing VFL

Oxley also getting a bit of it.

Sigh!

[Pies4shaw]

I'm reasonably sure that Casey was on top of the ladder, TP.

[Cam]

Cloke was great, Aish was sensational. Both I think will be considered for next week.

[Woods]

Great? Good, yes. What one should expect of an AFL veteran playing the lower league. He did well and showed some grit in the mud. But Great?

Aish finished well, but sensational? Really? No, not really.

Cloke needs to play better again for two or three more VFL games before he's considered for the AFL side.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves, and let's not set Cloke up for another disappointing and mentally damaging return to the seniors.

Good to see Buckley out there giving him support during the breaks.

[themonk]

[Big T]

[Cam]

BOG in the wet against the top team was sensational. He was everywhere, tackled his guts out, threw his body in and he continually moved the ball into dangerous spots with chips, deft handballs and kicks. His long goal on the run was the icing on the cake. It wasn't Eddie Betts kicking 5 or Gary Ablett Jnr but kept in context it was a fantastic game.

[Skids]

That's what we want Cam!

Go PIES!

[Collingwood Crackerjack]