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mudlark
Joined: 19 Mar 2002
Location: Maroochydore Qld
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| cityslick1 wrote: | Ha... a few misspelled player names and omissions (buddy says hi), plus a bit harsh on Ramsay, but I agree with most of your sentiments.
You forgot Sidey and Crisp from our midfield, but I too am at a bit of a loss as to why they haven't stood up so far. Tom Mitchell and Luke Parker made them look like rookies in round one, as well as looking like they were playing with cement shoes.
Adams looked primed to become a 30 possie predator, but so far has looked small, slow, and out-muscled, whilst fumbling and rushing his disposal under pressure. Greenwood has been serviceable, but again v slow, and Crisp seems to be basking in his new deal. Sidey has been a big out, Pendles is at 80% and scared of contact, whilst Aish managed one kick last week, whilst Lindsay hunter from his draft year has all of a sudden become a midfield star.
Grundy and Witts obv need more time (years), though Grundy looks like he may never be athletic or have a good tank, whilst Witts makes bad decisions, is always ball watching and has never used his height to dominate a game.
Maybe our coaches aren't as good at development as other clubs, because it just doesn't make any sense for so many talented players to be under delivering on their potential.
I also remember Brereton AND Carey going downhill from 29, so I would also cut Cloke some slack, especially as his Richmond game wasn't that bad, whilst praying that Hogan is holding off on his contract negotiations to move across from Gosch's to the Holden Centre...
Go pies |
And after ALL this putrid garbage you've written about OUR team.OUR club,we still beat the BIG IMPROVERS!!!! Bollocks to ya!!! |
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simon tonna
Joined: 24 Oct 2013
Location: carindale
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| mudlark wrote: | | cityslick1 wrote: | Ha... a few misspelled player names and omissions (buddy says hi), plus a bit harsh on Ramsay, but I agree with most of your sentiments.
You forgot Sidey and Crisp from our midfield, but I too am at a bit of a loss as to why they haven't stood up so far. Tom Mitchell and Luke Parker made them look like rookies in round one, as well as looking like they were playing with cement shoes.
Adams looked primed to become a 30 possie predator, but so far has looked small, slow, and out-muscled, whilst fumbling and rushing his disposal under pressure. Greenwood has been serviceable, but again v slow, and Crisp seems to be basking in his new deal. Sidey has been a big out, Pendles is at 80% and scared of contact, whilst Aish managed one kick last week, whilst Lindsay hunter from his draft year has all of a sudden become a midfield star.
Grundy and Witts obv need more time (years), though Grundy looks like he may never be athletic or have a good tank, whilst Witts makes bad decisions, is always ball watching and has never used his height to dominate a game.
Maybe our coaches aren't as good at development as other clubs, because it just doesn't make any sense for so many talented players to be under delivering on their potential.
I also remember Brereton AND Carey going downhill from 29, so I would also cut Cloke some slack, especially as his Richmond game wasn't that bad, whilst praying that Hogan is holding off on his contract negotiations to move across from Gosch's to the Holden Centre...
Go pies |
And after ALL this putrid garbage you've written about OUR team.OUR club,we still beat the BIG IMPROVERS!!!! Bollocks to ya!!! |
cmon, who didn't have an optimistic view of our list and the season that was to come? I sure as hell did.
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no second chances |
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Johnno75
Joined: 07 Oct 2010
Location: Wantirna
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If Cloke manages 8 shots today I'd be happy with a 4 goal return. You could give him 8 shots from the goal square and he is bound to f@ck up 1 or 2.
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Human behavioural studies suggest people who use a lot of swear words tend to be more honest & trustworthy. |
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John Wren 
"Look after the game. It means so much to so many."
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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| simon tonna wrote: | | mudlark wrote: | | cityslick1 wrote: | Ha... a few misspelled player names and omissions (buddy says hi), plus a bit harsh on Ramsay, but I agree with most of your sentiments.
You forgot Sidey and Crisp from our midfield, but I too am at a bit of a loss as to why they haven't stood up so far. Tom Mitchell and Luke Parker made them look like rookies in round one, as well as looking like they were playing with cement shoes.
Adams looked primed to become a 30 possie predator, but so far has looked small, slow, and out-muscled, whilst fumbling and rushing his disposal under pressure. Greenwood has been serviceable, but again v slow, and Crisp seems to be basking in his new deal. Sidey has been a big out, Pendles is at 80% and scared of contact, whilst Aish managed one kick last week, whilst Lindsay hunter from his draft year has all of a sudden become a midfield star.
Grundy and Witts obv need more time (years), though Grundy looks like he may never be athletic or have a good tank, whilst Witts makes bad decisions, is always ball watching and has never used his height to dominate a game.
Maybe our coaches aren't as good at development as other clubs, because it just doesn't make any sense for so many talented players to be under delivering on their potential.
I also remember Brereton AND Carey going downhill from 29, so I would also cut Cloke some slack, especially as his Richmond game wasn't that bad, whilst praying that Hogan is holding off on his contract negotiations to move across from Gosch's to the Holden Centre...
Go pies |
And after ALL this putrid garbage you've written about OUR team.OUR club,we still beat the BIG IMPROVERS!!!! Bollocks to ya!!! |
cmon, who didn't have an optimistic view of our list and the season that was to come? I sure as hell did. |
two weeks in and the typical overreaction has commenced. from one extreme to another. the answer is usually somewhere in between. are people like this for other things in their lives that don't go the way they expected or had hoped?
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Purveyor of sanctimonious twaddle. |
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AnthonyC 
Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
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| stoliboy wrote: | Cloke averages 1.8 goals a game over his career. He's now averaged 0.5 goals in his last 8 games.
His last bag was against GWS in Round 11 2015 when he kick 5.2.
The week before against Melbourne in Round 10 2015 he kicked 7.0!
Since then:
2015
0.0 vs Fremantle (65 DT)
1.4 vs Hawthorn (99 DT)
0.0 vs Port Adelaide (43 DT)
0.0 vs West Coast (injured in first quarter)
1.1 vs Sydney (52 DT)
1.1 vs Richmond (61 DT)
2016
0.0 vs Sydney (32 DT)
1.3 vs Richmond (59 DT)
You could drop Cloke for the next game but he also kicked 5.4 against St Kilda last year.
Looking at our next few matches:
St Kilda
Melbourne
Essendon
If he doesn't perform in those matches he has to be dropped. |
Stats are great. I'm a numbers man myself, maths has always been one of my strong points, but enough about me.
I agree on the face of those numbers Cloke's "form" looks poor.
Just one question, can you tell me or anyone what his specific role was in those games, or any games, he has played?
I'm not on the match committee myself so I'm not sure. But I'd be pretty sure that there would be specific instruction and feedback on what he is expected to do and what he did do.
I get frustrated as much as anyone on his inaccurate kicking. I'm sure he does too.
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Go Pies! |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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^^^ The answer is, of course, that those stats are extraordinarily selective. Cloke does average about 1.8 goals per game. Last season, of course, at the mid-point - when Collingwood was 8 wins and 3 losses, he'd played 11 games at about 3 goals per game. I was a career-record start to the season for Cloke. I posted about it at the time and specifically compared his previous performances against the teams we'd played in those 11 rounds to demonstrated that it was career-best goal-kicking form for him and not just some accident of the draw.
Unfortunately, Cloke was injured in the second half of 2015 and only played 6 more games. He performed poorly by his standards but if we had had a functioning alternative, he wouldn't have played.
Thus, the 4 goals in his last 8 games stat takes in only that part of last year when he was restricted by injury and the first 2 games of this year. It also, of course, doesn't tell the true story - because it masks some great efforts in that period (eg, his round 14 game against Hawthorn, in which he had 20 disposals, including 16 kicks - only Pendlebury with 19 had more for Collingwood that day, 11 marks - including 4 contested marks - and kicked a miserable 1.4).
It's stupid - but not quite as stupid as the media comments over recent days that he's been on a downward spiral for the last two years. Statistically, that's rubbish when one looks at his week on week games in 2015, instead of just looking at the season statistics, without considering how many games he played and whether or not he played with injury. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| oooppppsssss. Sorry |
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stoid
stoid
Joined: 06 Mar 2003
Location: Melbourne
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| AnthonyC wrote: | Just one question, can you tell me or anyone what his specific role was in those games, or any games, he has played?
I'm not on the match committee myself so I'm not sure. But I'd be pretty sure that there would be specific instruction and feedback on what he is expected to do and what he did do.
I get frustrated as much as anyone on his inaccurate kicking. I'm sure he does too. |
Anthony, I'm not on the match computer either, but having played the game and watched it for as long as I have, I can tell you with absolute certainty, that his main "role" is to contribute to the team scoring goals. If that's kicking them himself, an assist or a contributing in a chain that gets a goal/score. That is the number one priority for any forward. Over the last 7 or 8 years, secondary aspects have come in, eg defensive pressure etc. But being involved in goals is what a forwards primary focus should be.
I hope he's involved in 20 goals today  |
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stoid
stoid
Joined: 06 Mar 2003
Location: Melbourne
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| Sorry... DP |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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first 2 Goals of the day.
Cloke gets the strong knock on and follows u with a handball to set the first goal.
shepherds the second one.
None of this is in your silly stats. takes great strength to dominate opponents in this way. Great play!!!
watch the game boys.
Crisp misses a sitter from 25 out. Results in an end to end goal. How about we sledge him like we sledge Cloke?
And a goal from hard running. Let me guess, even though gault gets a lot of credit for the over the back role. Cloke doesn't get ANY credit.
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Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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Cloke was bloody good that quarter love him running out the centre, it's like the ropes are off,
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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How do you like me now!!!
bobby sugar, please tell me who is in our magoos who deserves to come in for Cloke.
serious discussion on cloke that suggests he should be dropped is an OXy f'n moron!!!!
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Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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Saints should drop McCartin now. If you don't kick every goal you should be out!!!!
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Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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i hate carlton
Joined: 05 May 2014
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This.
He is playing up the ground and i suspect that smaller faster forwards are the way the game is heading. His onball workrate and attitude is outstanding. He leads, he contests, he contributes.
We still need Cloke, but i doubt he is still seen as the leading full forward by the match committee. Maybe by the marketing committee.
| AnthonyC wrote: |
Stats are great. I'm a numbers man myself, maths has always been one of my strong points, but enough about me.
I agree on the face of those numbers Cloke's "form" looks poor.
Just one question, can you tell me or anyone what his specific role was in those games, or any games, he has played?
I'm not on the match committee myself so I'm not sure. But I'd be pretty sure that there would be specific instruction and feedback on what he is expected to do and what he did do.
I get frustrated as much as anyone on his inaccurate kicking. I'm sure he does too. |
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He's kicking pineapples!
My favourite nicks thread (Laugh at Carlscum): http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/viewtopic.php?t=66021&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| E wrote: | How do you like me now!!!
bobby sugar, please tell me who is in our magoos who deserves to come in for Cloke.
serious discussion on cloke that suggests he should be dropped is an OXy f'n moron!!!! |
As long as bucks keeps playing him in this position, it's building his confidence too awesome
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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