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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
On your last point, why not? Would a banner saying "expel the catholic church" be equally offensive? To be fair, they've probably been responsible for more hurt and trauma in Australia than Islam has.
FWIW I disagree with your definition of "politically correct" as a blanket one. Unfortunately it can cover a range of things, including the kind of things you allude to. But it can also be used as a term to describe the progressive habit of pushing their views and shouting down dissent with terms like racism rather than using actual critical discussion.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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I would support a banner that says ban: alcohol, cigarettes, gambling, advertising from the footy (outside as well as inside the G)
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| And ban loud noise over the PA when the game isn't on. I love loud music but I've no more interest in hearing the Stones blaring between goals than I have in seeing Scott Pendlebury handball on stage between Megadeth numbers. |
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nomadjack
Joined: 27 Apr 2006
Location: Essendon
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| schuey07 wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | | schuey07 wrote: | | Not racist. Religion is not a race. They have their right to free speech. |
They have the right to f*ck off too. Remember the tens of thousands of Australians who died fighting Fascism in WWII, so it's disgusting that these local Fascists link their miserable, pathetic politics to our club. |
Remember all the people who died at the hands of the Fascists who had their right to free speech removed, who couldn't speak out against their oppressors. If you like it or not, they have that right to their opinion. |
Got to love the selective democrats bleating about free speech. Last time I looked freedom of religion was a fundamental democratic principle as well. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| stui magpie wrote: | ^
On your last point, why not? Would a banner saying "expel the catholic church" be equally offensive? To be fair, they've probably been responsible for more hurt and trauma in Australia than Islam has.
FWIW I disagree with your definition of "politically correct" as a blanket one. Unfortunately it can cover a range of things, including the kind of things you allude to. But it can also be used as a term to describe the progressive habit of pushing their views and shouting down dissent with terms like racism rather than using actual critical discussion. |
Here, it's "progressive" that you're using as a label. Some people certainly seem to adopt their values with their hairstyles (so, eg, I gave up going to anti-war rallies during the first Iraq war, when it became apparent to me that people thought I was from ASIO because I didn't dye my hair blue). Most of those people aren't really progressives - it's just a phase of anti-conservative sloganeering they're going through. It's not a movement if it's really just a fashion statement.
On the substantive issue, there is no room for critical discussion about that banner. That said, I'm happy to hold up a "Ban all religions" banner with you.
Sometimes, of course, negative sentiments directed at powerful groups are less likely to offend. Thus, "kill the rich" and "kill the disabled" are syntactically similar but rather different slogans. |
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David 
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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| stui magpie wrote: | Interesting you skirt around the very topic that came to mind with this.
Would there be the same outcry if it WAS a politically correct topic?
If the banner said "Close Manus Island" or "Free the refugees", these are both political topics, ones that many people would not support but progressives would.
Is the outcry really about racism (when Muslims aren't a race anyway) or hate speech or just about silencing a dissenting viewpoint?
I don't agree with their message and I don't think the footy should be used as a platform for political or other protests, but that famous quote misattributed to Voltaire comes to mind. |
I guess people are arguing this from one of two different vantage points (or both at once): one is that sport should be an apolitical sphere full stop, and the other is that the problem is what this banner in particular was expressing.
I'm in the latter camp, for the most part. I think the idea of designated apolitical spaces is actually kind of an artificial construct. Supposedly 'neutral' spaces like the football, commercial television and the workplace are actually highly ideological. Consider the Olympics, for example, and their hypocritical condemnation of, say, the black power salute. What I think a lot of people mean when they say "I don't want politics at the football" is actually "I don't want anything that challenges the ideological status quo in this space".
The primary aim of protest is to disrupt supposedly 'neutral' spaces this is the whole point of street marches and picket lines, for instance. So, in that sense a banner at the football is a legitimate act of protest. My issue is that this particular banner happened to constitute hate speech and a specific attack on a minority group (whether it's 'racist' or not doesn't matter; that's a red herring in my view), and no, I don't think there's room for that at the football.
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| nomadjack wrote: | | schuey07 wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | | schuey07 wrote: | | Not racist. Religion is not a race. They have their right to free speech. |
They have the right to f*ck off too. Remember the tens of thousands of Australians who died fighting Fascism in WWII, so it's disgusting that these local Fascists link their miserable, pathetic politics to our club. |
Remember all the people who died at the hands of the Fascists who had their right to free speech removed, who couldn't speak out against their oppressors. If you like it or not, they have that right to their opinion. |
Got to love the selective democrats bleating about free speech. Last time I looked freedom of religion was a fundamental democratic principle as well. |
It's straight out of the United Patriots Front Handbook. The user just made it a bit too obvious.
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| When? What did you find? |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| stui magpie wrote: | | Jezza wrote: | | Woods Of Ypres wrote: | | Footy should not be about politics, yet I bet the people upset about this banner fully supported Goodes and his on field nonsense |
I hate politics and sports colliding with one another. I don't like what I saw tonight and I wouldn't like it either if it was a banner supporting a 'progressive' cause such as supporting refugees or advocating for gay marriage for example.
If you're passionate about a political cause, then go to a proper protest or write about your opinions on a blog or a political forum. There are other ways to have you views heard. |
Interesting you skirt around the very topic that came to mind with this.
Would there be the same outcry if it WAS a politically correct topic?
If the banner said "Close Manus Island" or "Free the refugees", these are both political topics, ones that many people would not support but progressives would.
Is the outcry really about racism (when Muslims aren't a race anyway) or hate speech or just about silencing a dissenting viewpoint?
I don't agree with their message and I don't think the footy should be used as a platform for political or other protests, but that famous quote misattributed to Voltaire comes to mind. |
Nobody has really answered this
Is it because of all the phoofar about Islam right now? What if it said close the churches? Is it just another case of white man guilt?
I don't agree with the message, but why is it different than any other politically based banner?
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| David wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | Interesting you skirt around the very topic that came to mind with this.
Would there be the same outcry if it WAS a politically correct topic?
If the banner said "Close Manus Island" or "Free the refugees", these are both political topics, ones that many people would not support but progressives would.
Is the outcry really about racism (when Muslims aren't a race anyway) or hate speech or just about silencing a dissenting viewpoint?
I don't agree with their message and I don't think the footy should be used as a platform for political or other protests, but that famous quote misattributed to Voltaire comes to mind. |
I guess people are arguing this from one of two different vantage points (or both at once): one is that sport should be an apolitical sphere full stop, and the other is that the problem is what this banner in particular was expressing.
I'm in the latter camp, for the most part. I think the idea of designated apolitical spaces is actually kind of an artificial construct. Supposedly 'neutral' spaces like the football, commercial television and the workplace are actually highly ideological. Consider the Olympics, for example, and their hypocritical condemnation of, say, the black power salute. What I think a lot of people mean when they say "I don't want politics at the football" is actually "I don't want anything that challenges the ideological status quo in this space".
The primary aim of protest is to disrupt supposedly 'neutral' spaces this is the whole point of street marches and picket lines, for instance. So, in that sense a banner at the football is a legitimate act of protest. My issue is that this particular banner happened to constitute hate speech and a specific attack on a minority group (whether it's 'racist' or not doesn't matter; that's a red herring in my view), and no, I don't think there's room for that at the football. |
Quite so David.
It is a nonsense argument to say keep politics out of sport. Sport is politics.
The delineation is what type of politics.
The banner represented a "shoot oneself in the foot" moment for it's sheer stupidity & they did this while supporting Collingwood.
I am ashamed of such ignorance once again masquerading as freedom of speech at the friggin' footy using my footy club. If only it were Richmond.
Go do it elsewhere (preferably in jail) & stop raining on our win.
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| David wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | Interesting you skirt around the very topic that came to mind with this.
Would there be the same outcry if it WAS a politically correct topic?
If the banner said "Close Manus Island" or "Free the refugees", these are both political topics, ones that many people would not support but progressives would.
Is the outcry really about racism (when Muslims aren't a race anyway) or hate speech or just about silencing a dissenting viewpoint?
I don't agree with their message and I don't think the footy should be used as a platform for political or other protests, but that famous quote misattributed to Voltaire comes to mind. |
I guess people are arguing this from one of two different vantage points (or both at once): one is that sport should be an apolitical sphere full stop, and the other is that the problem is what this banner in particular was expressing.
I'm in the latter camp, for the most part. I think the idea of designated apolitical spaces is actually kind of an artificial construct. Supposedly 'neutral' spaces like the football, commercial television and the workplace are actually highly ideological. Consider the Olympics, for example, and their hypocritical condemnation of, say, the black power salute. What I think a lot of people mean when they say "I don't want politics at the football" is actually "I don't want anything that challenges the ideological status quo in this space".
The primary aim of protest is to disrupt supposedly 'neutral' spaces this is the whole point of street marches and picket lines, for instance. So, in that sense a banner at the football is a legitimate act of protest. My issue is that this particular banner happened to constitute hate speech and a specific attack on a minority group (whether it's 'racist' or not doesn't matter; that's a red herring in my view), and no, I don't think there's room for that at the football. |
And if it said ban the churches?
I think you are just basing it on your own beliefs, which is human nature. Basically if it something you believe in, ok, allow it, if it's something you don't, then no. That's why all these special rounds piss me off!
Cricket has a pink day, for the fight against cancer, non political, effects everyone on the planet. That's far different than gay pride or right to life. Or my church is better than yours.
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| watt price tully wrote: | | David wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | Interesting you skirt around the very topic that came to mind with this.
Would there be the same outcry if it WAS a politically correct topic?
If the banner said "Close Manus Island" or "Free the refugees", these are both political topics, ones that many people would not support but progressives would.
Is the outcry really about racism (when Muslims aren't a race anyway) or hate speech or just about silencing a dissenting viewpoint?
I don't agree with their message and I don't think the footy should be used as a platform for political or other protests, but that famous quote misattributed to Voltaire comes to mind. |
I guess people are arguing this from one of two different vantage points (or both at once): one is that sport should be an apolitical sphere full stop, and the other is that the problem is what this banner in particular was expressing.
I'm in the latter camp, for the most part. I think the idea of designated apolitical spaces is actually kind of an artificial construct. Supposedly 'neutral' spaces like the football, commercial television and the workplace are actually highly ideological. Consider the Olympics, for example, and their hypocritical condemnation of, say, the black power salute. What I think a lot of people mean when they say "I don't want politics at the football" is actually "I don't want anything that challenges the ideological status quo in this space".
The primary aim of protest is to disrupt supposedly 'neutral' spaces this is the whole point of street marches and picket lines, for instance. So, in that sense a banner at the football is a legitimate act of protest. My issue is that this particular banner happened to constitute hate speech and a specific attack on a minority group (whether it's 'racist' or not doesn't matter; that's a red herring in my view), and no, I don't think there's room for that at the football. |
Quite so David.
It is a nonsense argument to say keep politics out of sport. Sport is politics.
The delineation is what type of politics.
The banner represented a "shoot oneself in the foot" moment for it's sheer stupidity & they did this while supporting Collingwood.
I am ashamed of such ignorance once again masquerading as freedom of speech at the friggin' footy using my footy club. If only it were Richmond.
Go do it elsewhere (preferably in jail) & stop raining on our win. |
No that's just your opinion (mine is also that it's stupid, but they are allowed their opinion, )the only thing they did wrong is to put Collingwood on the banner giving others the idea that all Collingwood supporters feel that way. Otherwise, you might want to rethink if it's ok to chuck a pretend spear at someone over something that happened a long time ago, and how about those jail house salutes? Quite frankly I find the, offensive, to the victims of crime. As someone said a couple of pages back, who are you to judge someone else's free speech? Eddie is correct in wanting them thrown out for life, but only because they had Collingwood on the banner.
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-04-02/afl-to-investigate-abuse-against-houli
this is not good. anyone heard anything?
interesting though is this line:
"Richmond said on Saturday that the AFL was investigating "another incident of abuse" involving Bachar Houli.
The AFL has confirmed that the abuse allegedly directed at Houli from the boundary line was not racially based.
Mr McLachlan said the league's security manager was investigating and if the people responsible were AFL members they would "be banned from games".
is anyone getting upset about the chopsticks?
maybe we just need a blanket ban on abuse, now theres an idea, stop the personal shit full stop.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| What's the point of football if you can't abuse your team, the other team, your team's supporters and the other team's supporters? |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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| think positive wrote: | And if it said ban the churches?
I think you are just basing it on your own beliefs, which is human nature. Basically if it something you believe in, ok, allow it, if it's something you don't, then no. That's why all these special rounds piss me off!
Cricket has a pink day, for the fight against cancer, non political, effects everyone on the planet. That's far different than gay pride or right to life. Or my church is better than yours. |
No, it's not just about my beliefs. I can't think of any protests I would support that would qualify as hate speech or make individuals (like Bachar Houli or Muslim footy supporters) feel targeted. You do realise that this is what the UPF are getting at, right? Their problem isn't specific places of worship; their problem is Muslims in general. These are the people who got kicked out of Reclaim Australia for being too extreme, FFS. A good proportion of them are actual Neo-Nazis.
So "no pentecostal church for Hampton" would only be equally problematic if it had connotations of "get Christians out of Bayside" and if Christians happened to be anywhere near as much of a threatened or oppressed minority as Muslims are here today. Even though neither of those things are true, I'd still be inclined to see such a sign at the football as tacky and inappropriate (though I'd support their right to do so in the sense that I wouldn't want them legally punished for it, just as I'd support the right of MCG security to confiscate the sign and kick them out). But to say the two messages are interchangeable totally misses the point.
Again, to say cancer is apolitical and gay pride isn't is an (at least somewhat) arbitrary distinction.
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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