Yay or nay - should Britain vote to leave the EU?

[HAL]

You don't say.

[stui magpie]

[5150]

[think positive]

Hehehhe to you both!

Actually though, usually someone here tells me which way I swing! I can never remember!

[Wokko]

[stui magpie]

[think positive]

OOPS!!!

[London Dave]

Just noticed this, dopey me..

If I was a betting man, atm, I'd be leaning 60% probability for exit. (that's based upon my thought that's when something is as complex as this, people will vote with their prejudices)

Personally, it's the no campaign that's convincing me to vote for a stay. The NO campaign that I've picked up so far is sloganeering, zero substance. No analysis of possible scenarios, just a bunch of statements almost Trumpish in it's "Let's make Britain Great again" yada yada.... Reminds me of the SNP in the Scottish referendum... only presenting a best case scenario of sunny uplands etc etc. The No Campaign is almost George W Bush like in it's "just trust me, my gut tells me it's the best thing to do". I'd like a bit of real analysis, not some jingoistic shit dreamed up on the back of a beer coaster down the Red Lion after a boozy Saturday.

The big swinger will probably be the Syria refugee crisis. Have done a bit of work over in Greece the last six months, in and north of Salonika... locals there are saying the original tidal wave were genuine Syrians, mostly highly educated, polite and thankful for whatever help the greeks could give them. Now it's quite different, lots of Afghans, Pakistanis... economic refugees if you could call them that. The spectre of Johnny Foreigner will loom large.

The UK is big enough to go it alone, but if the case for exit consists of nothing but the flim flam being dished up now, I'll do a Francis Rossi and take with status quo.

LBJ kinda summed up the dilemma, (paraphrasing here)...do you want to be inside the tent pissing out, or outside copping the golden shower?

[think positive]

Always the problem, generosity to the actually needy, brings greed by the not so needy.spoils it for everyone, cheers

[David]

"Greed". Interesting that you would use that word to describe someone merely wanting a life as good as yours.

[think positive]

[pietillidie]

^Ask him yourself, but AFAICT David wasn't calling you greedy, he was questioning you using that label for so-called "economic refugees" from your perch of fortune.

[pietillidie]

^On another point, TP, talk of "selfless goals" is non-scientific mumbo jumbo. It's like asking people how their photosynthesis is going. Well, humans also don't do "selfless goals", because a "selfless" human is a dead or brain-damaged human by definition. Unless you're asking about someone's impending death, of course.

However, humans can do productive interaction whose benefits extend beyond itself. So, the human question here is actually, "are your interactions with the world (which we know and indeed hope you also benefit from) productive?"

And, much like making money, these productive interactions can be conducted through various channels at different scales, from narrow social interaction to politics.

At mass scale, one single political decision, such as invading Iraq, can cause hundreds of thousands of deaths, millions of refugees, and trigger regional breakdown and mass terrorism. So, if you were able to contribute to stopping such evil, that would count as a phenomenally productive interaction with the world. And, if you're not insane, you would hope to benefit from doing that in whatever currency suits, from esteem to satisfaction to financial stability.

At the individual scale, one might impact impact in other ways, like providing a shoulder to cry on, giving sincere and valuable advice, offering a practical hand, giving someone encouragement, and so on. In between, one might start a local group which targets certain communities and issues, write a moving book which inspires some sort of betterment, or so on.

So, forget this talk of fairies, goblins and non-existent "selflessness". Ask the right questions.

How productive are your interactions with the world, TP?

[think positive]

[think positive]