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think positive Libra

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Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere

PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 8:21 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

Pies4shaw wrote:
It's a no-brainer that minimum rates should be fixed. If people are being pushed beyond the edge of safe driving by the financial pressures on them (and that's essentially the logic behind the remuneration orders), they need to find themselves another industry or job.

These are very large, very dangerous machines. In compromised hands, they are like weapons. The cost of participating in such an industry must necessarily include the cost of keeping it safe.

Really, it's quite expensive to put safety guards on machines, too. And to require that the guy who does your roof erect scaffolding before he works up there. But these are basic requirements of a civilized society. They ought not be treated as politically divisive matters.

The financial "logic" of an industry like this is frequently non-existent, too. Once, a few years back, my then firm acted for a vehicle manufacturer defending a claim for breach of contract by the liquidator of a long-haul trucking company. Essentially, the claim was that the manufacturer's refusal to supply vehicles that it had contracted to supply had sent the trucking company broke. As it happened, the defence was, in substance, that refusing to supply the trucks did send the company broke but just more quickly than it was otherwise going to happen and, in the circumstances, going broke quickly was cheaper than going broke slowly. Thus, there was a breach of contract but the breach saved the company money. In a proper, viable industry, such a defence would be inconceivable. There's a message in that (and, no, the message isn't about devious lawyers).


Great post. Especially re the truckies; a truck has so much potential to take out so many people in one hit, like the one that hit the train a few years ago did. Work cover is a great thing, too many shonky bosses would take short cuts for the mighty dollar.

Our solar gets fitted in a couple of weeks, I wonder if they use fall protection. A young worker fell off my sister in laws roof when hers was fitted, luckily he landed on the pegola, still broke a couple of bones though, ankle I think. And the company had to pay the damage to the pegola.

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Dave The Man Scorpio



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 6:11 pm
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Lib's Shit on the Poor and Needy yet again in the Budget
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Skids Cancer

Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.


Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175

PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 6:55 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave The Man wrote:
Lib's Shit on the Poor and Needy yet again in the Budget


How do you work that out Dave?

NAB says....

What does the Budget mean for Individuals?

Treasurer Scott Morrison has handed down his first Federal Budget – the Coalition Government’s third. The winners are low and middle income earners, unemployed youth and small business, and there are significant changes to superannuation.
http://business.nab.com.au/federal-budget/?ps_kwcid=43700011010316578?ps_kwcid=43700011010316578

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Dave The Man Scorpio



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 7:20 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Skids wrote:
Dave The Man wrote:
Lib's Shit on the Poor and Needy yet again in the Budget


How do you work that out Dave?

NAB says....

What does the Budget mean for Individuals?

Treasurer Scott Morrison has handed down his first Federal Budget – the Coalition Government’s third. The winners are low and middle income earners, unemployed youth and small business, and there are significant changes to superannuation.
http://business.nab.com.au/federal-budget/?ps_kwcid=43700011010316578?ps_kwcid=43700011010316578


What about People on the Pension?

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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 7:31 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

think positive wrote:
Pies4shaw wrote:
It's a no-brainer that minimum rates should be fixed. If people are being pushed beyond the edge of safe driving by the financial pressures on them (and that's essentially the logic behind the remuneration orders), they need to find themselves another industry or job.

These are very large, very dangerous machines. In compromised hands, they are like weapons. The cost of participating in such an industry must necessarily include the cost of keeping it safe.

Really, it's quite expensive to put safety guards on machines, too. And to require that the guy who does your roof erect scaffolding before he works up there. But these are basic requirements of a civilized society. They ought not be treated as politically divisive matters.

The financial "logic" of an industry like this is frequently non-existent, too. Once, a few years back, my then firm acted for a vehicle manufacturer defending a claim for breach of contract by the liquidator of a long-haul trucking company. Essentially, the claim was that the manufacturer's refusal to supply vehicles that it had contracted to supply had sent the trucking company broke. As it happened, the defence was, in substance, that refusing to supply the trucks did send the company broke but just more quickly than it was otherwise going to happen and, in the circumstances, going broke quickly was cheaper than going broke slowly. Thus, there was a breach of contract but the breach saved the company money. In a proper, viable industry, such a defence would be inconceivable. There's a message in that (and, no, the message isn't about devious lawyers).


Great post. Especially re the truckies; a truck has so much potential to take out so many people in one hit, like the one that hit the train a few years ago did. Work cover is a great thing, too many shonky bosses would take short cuts for the mighty dollar.

Our solar gets fitted in a couple of weeks, I wonder if they use fall protection. A young worker fell off my sister in laws roof when hers was fitted, luckily he landed on the pegola, still broke a couple of bones though, ankle I think. And the company had to pay the damage to the pegola.


My cousin is a truckie, words for a family business and him and his mates hate the rem tribunal as they believe it will force the smaller operators out of business and they'll be left having to work for one of the big companies who (in their words) treat the drivers like shit.

Worksafe is a good thing, safer working practices across dangerous industries definitely are. Unfortunately the construction unions in particular undermine all the good work of unions in the past who put OH&S on the agenda, by using OH&S as a smoke screen for industrial tactics.

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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 7:33 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave The Man wrote:
Skids wrote:
Dave The Man wrote:
Lib's Shit on the Poor and Needy yet again in the Budget


How do you work that out Dave?

NAB says....

What does the Budget mean for Individuals?

Treasurer Scott Morrison has handed down his first Federal Budget – the Coalition Government’s third. The winners are low and middle income earners, unemployed youth and small business, and there are significant changes to superannuation.
http://business.nab.com.au/federal-budget/?ps_kwcid=43700011010316578?ps_kwcid=43700011010316578


What about People on the Pension?


What about them? They're still getting them aren't they?

So they're going to put more effort into helping people get work and chasing the con artists off the disability pension, that should be a good thing

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Dave The Man Scorpio



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 8:44 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

stui magpie wrote:
Dave The Man wrote:
Skids wrote:
Dave The Man wrote:
Lib's Shit on the Poor and Needy yet again in the Budget


How do you work that out Dave?

NAB says....

What does the Budget mean for Individuals?

Treasurer Scott Morrison has handed down his first Federal Budget – the Coalition Government’s third. The winners are low and middle income earners, unemployed youth and small business, and there are significant changes to superannuation.
http://business.nab.com.au/federal-budget/?ps_kwcid=43700011010316578?ps_kwcid=43700011010316578


What about People on the Pension?


What about them? They're still getting them aren't they?

So they're going to put more effort into helping people get work and chasing the con artists off the disability pension, that should be a good thing


It is good that Young People getting Help getting a Job and Getting the Con's off the Pension.

But I think people who are Legitimately on it should get some more money coming from these Measures as there is barley enough to live on

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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 8:57 pm
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^

I suppose it depends. You live at home so I assume you don't get rent assistance which someone living independently would get. I don't know a lot about what other things might be available but it's not a lot of money.

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Wokko Pisces

Come and take it.


Joined: 04 Oct 2005


PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 9:51 pm
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Being on government assistance, whether as a parent, student, carer or unemployed (I've been all of those at one time or another) is certainly not a financially pleasant place to be and in most cases it's not meant to be. When you can't work (illness, caring, parenting), it's enough to live on and enjoy a few small comforts. When it's because you're looking for work it's enough to survive on and that's all it should be. Making it enticing to stay on welfare is what creates the welfare trap and intergenerational dependency. I've seen studies that show a huge percentage of welfare recipients manage to find work when payments are about to be cut off (most countries place a time limit on assistance).

Personally, I think the biggest barrier to getting people back to work is the fact they haven't been. Whenever I've been employed I've found it incredibly easy to find and move into another job. When I've been out of work for a while it's a bit harder, but I've still never had an issue when I've been willing to work shitty jobs or shitty hours. It's only things like needing to pick up and drop off my daughter and look after her that has narrowed my pool of available work. Even then, I've managed to find something within a couple of months (now going back to Uni to be a scummy arts student anyway). This Government program may get around that barrier by putting someone in the workforce, keeping a schedule and networking. Of course there'll be idiot bosses who take advantage but I can see the chance for a net benefit.
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David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 10:27 pm
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^ I actually agree with a great deal of that. I do think government assistance could be a little higher than it is, but then so should the minimum wage so that there's more incentive to work.

In principle, unemployment benefits should be enough to get by on, not enough to live totally comfortably on, otherwise I agree that there'll be a lot less incentive to find work.

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think positive Libra

Side By Side


Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere

PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 10:34 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

stui magpie wrote:
think positive wrote:
Pies4shaw wrote:
It's a no-brainer that minimum rates should be fixed. If people are being pushed beyond the edge of safe driving by the financial pressures on them (and that's essentially the logic behind the remuneration orders), they need to find themselves another industry or job.

These are very large, very dangerous machines. In compromised hands, they are like weapons. The cost of participating in such an industry must necessarily include the cost of keeping it safe.

Really, it's quite expensive to put safety guards on machines, too. And to require that the guy who does your roof erect scaffolding before he works up there. But these are basic requirements of a civilized society. They ought not be treated as politically divisive matters.

The financial "logic" of an industry like this is frequently non-existent, too. Once, a few years back, my then firm acted for a vehicle manufacturer defending a claim for breach of contract by the liquidator of a long-haul trucking company. Essentially, the claim was that the manufacturer's refusal to supply vehicles that it had contracted to supply had sent the trucking company broke. As it happened, the defence was, in substance, that refusing to supply the trucks did send the company broke but just more quickly than it was otherwise going to happen and, in the circumstances, going broke quickly was cheaper than going broke slowly. Thus, there was a breach of contract but the breach saved the company money. In a proper, viable industry, such a defence would be inconceivable. There's a message in that (and, no, the message isn't about devious lawyers).


Great post. Especially re the truckies; a truck has so much potential to take out so many people in one hit, like the one that hit the train a few years ago did. Work cover is a great thing, too many shonky bosses would take short cuts for the mighty dollar.

Our solar gets fitted in a couple of weeks, I wonder if they use fall protection. A young worker fell off my sister in laws roof when hers was fitted, luckily he landed on the pegola, still broke a couple of bones though, ankle I think. And the company had to pay the damage to the pegola.


My cousin is a truckie, words for a family business and him and his mates hate the rem tribunal as they believe it will force the smaller operators out of business and they'll be left having to work for one of the big companies who (in their words) treat the drivers like shit.

Worksafe is a good thing, safer working practices across dangerous industries definitely are. Unfortunately the construction unions in particular undermine all the good work of unions in the past who put OH&S on the agenda, by using OH&S as a smoke screen for industrial tactics.


Totally agree, not sure if it was here or elsewhere but I thought I said when I worked at Mercedes Benz trucks we did a lot of big fleets and it's amazing how many or their trucks came in for a service after the mandatory 100klm speed limiters were fitted and they had been tampered with.

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Culprit Cancer



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne

PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 6:18 am
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7 Eleven bosses are happy. From July 2017 they can now hire slaves um I mean interns at $4 an hour for 12 weeks at a time. Get $1000 up front for each one. That should help them recoup the fines and back pay they have had to forked out.
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Culprit Cancer



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne

PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2016 12:15 pm
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Turdbull is the gift that keeps on giving. Let's keep rubbing the peasants noses in the pooh. Razz
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5150 Sagittarius



Joined: 31 Aug 2005


PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2016 10:07 pm
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I will be voting Liberal.
Bill Shortens head shits me and I hate the unions.
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David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2016 10:14 pm
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^ I feel much the same about Shorten and his dodgy mates but I'll be voting Green and giving Labor a strong second preference. In the immortal words of the Daily Telegraph, it's time to Kick This Mob Out.
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