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Australian Federal Election 2016

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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:45 pm
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I thought he was famous for marrying a kardashian and releasing songs featuring a cat being tortured with the accompaniment of something vaguely resembling music
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Wokko Pisces

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Joined: 04 Oct 2005


PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:50 pm
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Blank Space is one of the greatest songs of all time. OF ALL TIME.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-ORhEE9VVg
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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 2:01 pm
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I'm guessing not many people are aware of the legislation introduced by Gillard to drive owner truckers out of business. The coalition has scrapped it but Shorten wants to put it back in.

Little article I saw on Facebook. NFI about the leanings of the site but the article is pretty spot on.

Quote:
If Labor is elected it is all over for tens of thousands of owner-drivers across Australia.



Bill Shorten has today sent a clear message to the tens of thousands of owner-drivers across Australia that if a Labor Government is elected, it will re-introduce the Road Safety Remuneration System, deliberately putting small business operators out of work.



Mr Shorten has today confirmed that he will acquiesce to the demands of the Transport Workers Union and re-establish the same ‘safe rates’ that nearly drove mum and dad small businesses across Australia to the wall in April. This extraordinary move only serves to further highlight how beholden Bill Shorten is to the union movement.



Mr Shorten’s commitment ignores the fact that there is no tangible evidence that demonstrates that there is any link to remuneration in the trucking industry and safety, and no evidence that owner drivers are less safe than employee truck drivers. The TWU’s entire basis for the RSRT was based on a falsehood, yet Mr Shorten unquestioningly adopts the TWU’s position.



Rest of the article here.

http://www.dailybulletin.com.au/news/17955-shorten-vows-to-take-owner-drivers-off-the-road

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David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 2:23 pm
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I haven't read up on this issue much. It's about controlling wages, right? The point being that if owner-drivers get to negotiate their own rates, other truckies can't compete?
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Dangles 

Balmey Army


Joined: 14 May 2015


PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 2:46 pm
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Culprit wrote:
stui magpie wrote:
^

Do workers ever feel overpaid?
Never Stui, but when you see CEOs on mega bucks whilst you bust your arse for a pittance, told the company cannot afford it, I can see why people are unhappy. Rich v Poor is what this election will be about on many levels.


It's always about social justice versus vested interest.
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think positive Libra

Side By Side


Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere

PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 4:21 pm
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stui magpie wrote:
I'm guessing not many people are aware of the legislation introduced by Gillard to drive owner truckers out of business. The coalition has scrapped it but Shorten wants to put it back in.

Little article I saw on Facebook. NFI about the leanings of the site but the article is pretty spot on.

Quote:
If Labor is elected it is all over for tens of thousands of owner-drivers across Australia.



Bill Shorten has today sent a clear message to the tens of thousands of owner-drivers across Australia that if a Labor Government is elected, it will re-introduce the Road Safety Remuneration System, deliberately putting small business operators out of work.



Mr Shorten has today confirmed that he will acquiesce to the demands of the Transport Workers Union and re-establish the same ‘safe rates’ that nearly drove mum and dad small businesses across Australia to the wall in April. This extraordinary move only serves to further highlight how beholden Bill Shorten is to the union movement.



Mr Shorten’s commitment ignores the fact that there is no tangible evidence that demonstrates that there is any link to remuneration in the trucking industry and safety, and no evidence that owner drivers are less safe than employee truck drivers. The TWU’s entire basis for the RSRT was based on a falsehood, yet Mr Shorten unquestioningly adopts the TWU’s position.



Rest of the article here.

http://www.dailybulletin.com.au/news/17955-shorten-vows-to-take-owner-drivers-off-the-road


That's just wrong. Remember an thing on 60 min a couple of years back showing what big companies expect of their drivers, impossIble deadlines, they have to rig their log books, and showing the short cuts on maintenance. We have a couple of friends with either their own truck, or several trucks, and they all take exceptional care of them, one tow truck is an absolute masterpiece! Yes their is rogue owner drivers, but they want to check out the big boys too. I remember how many speed limiters we fitted when I worked at Mercedes Benz trucks, the second time they came in for service 90 % had a new modification!

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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 6:07 pm
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David wrote:
I haven't read up on this issue much. It's about controlling wages, right? The point being that if owner-drivers get to negotiate their own rates, other truckies can't compete?


IIRC what it was doing was forcing owner drivers to pay themselves and any family members basically a minimum set wage rate.

If you're running a family business, the family members don't usually draw a wage as such, you live from the proceeds of the business particularly when it's struggling. When it's going well it's all nice but when things are tight the family do the work as it's their livelihood. It would be like saying a farmer has to pay wages to his family who all work on the farm, just not viable.

It's not about how much they pay employees, that's not the issue, it's how much they pay themselves and family. basically it's a thinly veiled attempt to drive owner drivers and small family businesses out of the industry so the TWU can get more control

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HAL 

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Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 6:09 pm
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I don't know when.
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Wokko Pisces

Come and take it.


Joined: 04 Oct 2005


PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 8:07 pm
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David wrote:
I haven't read up on this issue much. It's about controlling wages, right? The point being that if owner-drivers get to negotiate their own rates, other truckies can't compete?


OMG Free market, someone call the Marxist thugs to stamp that out right now. Laughing
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 8:11 pm
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Oops. Too much data.
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David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:48 pm
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Wokko wrote:
David wrote:
I haven't read up on this issue much. It's about controlling wages, right? The point being that if owner-drivers get to negotiate their own rates, other truckies can't compete?


OMG Free market, someone call the Marxist thugs to stamp that out right now. Laughing


You'd have to admit it's a pretty central 'Labor' issue, though. There are plenty of 'free market' advocates who'd be happy to see wages left entirely within the domain of individual contracts and allow employees to reverse auction for jobs, earning $1 an hour if that was the going rate. On the flipside, there are Labor people out there who think that any unregulated/non-unionised job is a bad thing and must be destroyed at all costs.

I obviously lean a little more to the second view, but I agree that it can be dangerous to be too fundamentalist about this stuff sometimes. I'd have to investigate this issue further to know who's in the right here.

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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2016 1:03 am
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Here's one article that gives a half decent summary. http://www.news.com.au/finance/business/other-industries/push-to-abolish-truck-industry-pay-body/news-story/3f255720b9cff288e1905addb4f9236b
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Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2016 8:50 am
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It's a no-brainer that minimum rates should be fixed. If people are being pushed beyond the edge of safe driving by the financial pressures on them (and that's essentially the logic behind the remuneration orders), they need to find themselves another industry or job.

These are very large, very dangerous machines. In compromised hands, they are like weapons. The cost of participating in such an industry must necessarily include the cost of keeping it safe.

Really, it's quite expensive to put safety guards on machines, too. And to require that the guy who does your roof erect scaffolding before he works up there. But these are basic requirements of a civilized society. They ought not be treated as politically divisive matters.

The financial "logic" of an industry like this is frequently non-existent, too. Once, a few years back, my then firm acted for a vehicle manufacturer defending a claim for breach of contract by the liquidator of a long-haul trucking company. Essentially, the claim was that the manufacturer's refusal to supply vehicles that it had contracted to supply had sent the trucking company broke. As it happened, the defence was, in substance, that refusing to supply the trucks did send the company broke but just more quickly than it was otherwise going to happen and, in the circumstances, going broke quickly was cheaper than going broke slowly. Thus, there was a breach of contract but the breach saved the company money. In a proper, viable industry, such a defence would be inconceivable. There's a message in that (and, no, the message isn't about devious lawyers).


Last edited by Pies4shaw on Sun May 01, 2016 8:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2016 8:52 am
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Describe your surroundings.
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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2016 11:13 am
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That's a hell of a defence strategy. Did it work?
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