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Culprit 
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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| For a bloke to come out and say he may never come home is amazing. Talk about adding to the perception he is guilty. You can't trust blokes in Clown suits who have done nothing but cover up pedophilia for centuries. |
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David 
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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I think this is more the sort of thing you were talking about, Stui:
http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/feb/26/tim-minchin-says-george-pell-should-wash-feet-of-child-sex-abuse-survivors
| Tim Minchin wrote: | Even if his only crime was willful blindness, a personal act of acknowledgement and contrition from this man is profoundly important for survivors [...]
I personally believe it would be appropriate for him to get on his knees and wash their feet. |
There's no reason why he's any less entitled to an opinion than any other casual blogger, of course. But the sanctimonious "as a celebrity, I'm going to tell you what you need to do" attitude does grate a little. Each to their own.
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| David wrote: | I think this is more the sort of thing you were talking about, Stui:
http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/feb/26/tim-minchin-says-george-pell-should-wash-feet-of-child-sex-abuse-survivors
| Tim Minchin wrote: | Even if his only crime was willful blindness, a personal act of acknowledgement and contrition from this man is profoundly important for survivors [...]
I personally believe it would be appropriate for him to get on his knees and wash their feet. |
There's no reason why he's any less entitled to an opinion than any other casual blogger, of course. But the sanctimonious "as a celebrity, I'm going to tell you what you need to do" attitude does grate a little. Each to their own. |
I don't actually mind that, I reckon he got the tone and language just about right. He wasn't telling others what to think he was giving his opinion, and he's as entitled to it as anyone else.
I'm totally with you in that the "I'm a celeb.." etc sanctimonious overly egotistical bullshit grates, in fact it shits me. But, I think he's walked the line and stayed on the right side of it. Just.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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Come home George, come home;
you who are weary come home;
earnestly, tenderly, Jesus is calling,
calling, O sinner, come home!
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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This is the stuff of dark, surrealist, art 
http://www.theage.com.au/comment/cardinal-george-pells-90-minutes-from-hell-20160229-gn6xnd.html
| The Aged wrote: | Cardinal George Pell's 90 minutes from Hell
In one short burst of testimony, Cardinal Pell's own words lost him so much credibility as to make it impossible for objective, understanding people to empathise with him.
"There is a saying in the church … that those who know don't say, and those who say don't know."
Cardinal George Pell's words. Not mine.
Here are mine: Loose lips sink ships. Don't ask, don't tell. Ignorance is bliss. What you don't know won't hurt you.
If Pell did know in the 1970s and '80s about the paedophilia of disgraced priest Gerald Ridsdale and was complicit in exposing him to more children, the cardinal was not saying so on Tuesday.
But in 90 minutes of testimony from hell, Pell's own words betrayed him.
Pope Francis and others must surely now recognise the damage Pell's presence is doing to the church along with those millions who trust it and accept all the other good work it does.
Almost 40 years ago Pell was a consultor to the then bishop of Ballarat, Ronald Mulkearns, who made the final decisions on shifting the paedophile Ridsdale around.
"Consultors had an obligation to be as well informed as could reasonably be expected. I'll leave it at that."
Pell's words, not mine.
Did consultors have an obligation to keep ears and eyes out to properly advise the bishop?
"Correct."
Pell's answer, not mine.
"It's a sad story and it wasn't of much interest to me. The suffering of course was real. And I very much regret that. I had no reason to turn my mind to the evils that Ridsdale had perpetrated."
Pell again, not me.
The counsel assisting, Gail Furness, asked Pell: Who is responsible for the children?
"Everybody has some sort of general responsibility ... Every member of the church has a responsibility to do what they can to protect children."
My emphasis, not Pell's.
What, I wonder, should we make of what they can? Is it really what they choose to do in the context of blissful ignorance and loose lips sink ships?
After signs of reconciliation on Monday, the cardinal reverted to denial in his first 90 minutes of testimony on Tuesday.
We have reached a turning point.
From where I sit, as a non-Catholic of Catholic origin who just wants the church to come clean, help the healing of the victims and ensure these crimes never happen again, Pell lost so much credibility in those 90 minutes as to make it impossible for objective, understanding people to empathise with him.
It is difficult to conclude anything other than Pell made gross errors of judgment.
It takes a village to raise a child. No caring person could countenance a culture of silence about dangers to children, no matter work ambitions, ideology or duty to an institution like the Catholic Church.
Yet Pell was inclined to believe priests before children who alleged abuse. He says he did not hear what was common knowledge about deviant priests. He cannot recall what specifically was discussed at two meetings about Ridsdale being moved on, but says for certain that paedophilia was not mentioned.
Christians rely on teachings more than 2000 years old. Yet Pell claims common responses to child abuse in the 1970s were so different to what they are now as to, in my reading of it, excuse the approach of some church leaders.
And different levels of caring for kids?
"Under canon law, you can identify direct levels of responsibility."
And shifting responsibility for caring onto others who might still lie to you, as Pell claims Mulkearns and fellow consultor Leo Fiscalini did to him?
"Gross deception."
And why would Mulkearns choose to lie to you?
"He would realise that I didn't know and he did not want me to share in his culpability. He would not have wanted to mention it to me and at least some other consultors because we would have asked questions about propriety."
Royal commissioner Peter McClellan asked Pell: "If we were to come to the conclusion that you did know about Ridsdale when he was moved, then you would be culpable too?"
"Correct."
What the cardinal didn't say is that he at the very least should have known then about Ridsdale's paedophilia when advising the bishop.
If the cardinal did not know, then he is culpable for deliberately remaining ignorant in some deluded belief that it would help the church to which he has committed his life. If it was not wilful ignorance, then Pell is culpable for not making sufficient inquiry about Ridsdale given he knew in general terms there were "problems" and "difficulties".
From what we have heard, Pell failed to fulfil his responsibility as either a priest or a human being. He has never admitted anywhere near as much. He would be well advised to do so on Wednesday, for the sake of the church and his role in it, not to mention the victims of Ridsdale and countless others who deserve to find healing. |
http://www.theage.com.au/comment/cardinal-george-pells-90-minutes-from-hell-20160229-gn6xnd.html
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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Perhaps this isn't news to anyone but me, but it seems Pell was up to his neck in the church's cover-ups:
http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/mar/02/george-pell-presumed-paedophile-teacher-would-get-help-he-tells-royal-commission
It seems too little, too late to talk now about how these crimes could have been prevented, but how much better would it have been if people hadn't treated the priesthood as a dumping ground for troubled young men, and if there had been better (any?) services for men with these sexual proclivities in particular.
After all, the saddest fact in all this is that, even if Pell and others had acted courageously and ethically, reporting all crimes to the police as they should have, they still would have only been dealing with crimes that had already occurred. They would have prevented a great number of further children from falling victim to these abusers in the future, no doubt, and for that they have failed terribly; but those initial victims still would have their lives damaged.
Pell, for instance, says he thought the priest would have sought help. What help? What serious preventative avenues were available for those young priests who had not yet abused a child and might still have had an opportunity to choose a different path? There were none; certainly, not in those days.
Have we learned anything from this? If we have, we've done precious little to put it into practice. Accountability for sins committed only goes so far.
The Catholic Church has not only failed as a safe haven for the children in its care, but also as a therapeutic system. Rosaries and confession may help give people a guilty conscience, but they don't, it seems, do a lot to stop sexual offences. The church has suffered considerable reputational damage over their treatment of these crimes, and rightly so. Incantations, mythical texts, gilt interiors and holy virgins are really no basis for a functional system of ethics.
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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Culprit
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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